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Thread: Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Ok, hear me out. Picture this...A Horseshoe...

  1. #61
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    bernie didn't light the fires of the whole left, no.

  2. #62
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    Just read the Salon article. I think conservatives might like her.

    Congresswoman Gabbard herself is by no means a dove. She has twice fought in U.S. wars in Iraq — including after the U.S. carried a regime change operation against Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein in 2003.
    The Hawaii representative has also been accused of Islamophobia, and has ties to India’s anti-Muslim, Hindu nationalist BJP party.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheCaptain View Post
    bernie didn't light the fires of the whole left, no.
    Maybe not, but he did light the fires of the Obama coalition voters who were unwilling to vote for Hillary on election day. Traditional Republicans fell in line and voted for a populist candidate, why aren't traditional democrats capable of doing the same?

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    Draxx them sklounst

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by myDeaconmyhand View Post
    Maybe not, but he did light the fires of the Obama coalition voters who were unwilling to vote for Hillary on election day. Traditional Republicans fell in line and voted for a populist candidate, why aren't traditional democrats capable of doing the same?

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    find us a charismatic populist we can feel Meh+ about and we'll vote in the general for them.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheCaptain View Post
    find us a charismatic populist we can feel Meh+ about and we'll vote in the general for them.
    I voted for Hillary, but I also remember the time I spent on this board predicting that Hillary was not going to get the liberal independent support that Bernie got. This isn't directed at you personally, but maybe people like you should have fallen in line behind Bernie Sanders, instead of expecting fickle independents to fall in line behind Hillary. I'm confident that Bernie wouldn't have lost all of the blue collar white votes that Hillary lost.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ounties/<br />
    Draxx them sklounst

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by TownieDeac View Post
    I think you've got it backwards. They keep running centrist moderates and trying to pretend they're progressive.
    Was President Obama considered a moderate when he ran though?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by myDeaconmyhand View Post
    I voted for Hillary, but I also remember the time I spent on this board predicting that Hillary was not going to get the liberal independent support that Bernie got. This isn't directed at you personally, but maybe people like you should have fallen in line behind Bernie Sanders, instead of expecting fickle independents to fall in line behind Hillary. I'm confident that Bernie wouldn't have lost all of the blue collar white votes that Hillary lost.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ounties/<br />
    Well, frankly, I was more aligned with Hillary's positions than Bernie's, though I would have certainly voted for him in the General. I don't think he would've won the General against Trump but

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by TownieDeac View Post
    I think you've got it backwards. They keep running centrist moderates and trying to pretend they're progressive.
    this is problem part, not the centrist part

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by TownieDeac View Post
    Regardless of how you wish to characterize it?

    He extended the Bush tax cuts, kept one of the two wars going (and started bombing more countries), bailed out the banks and failed to hold them accountable for their actions leading up to the crisis. There are plenty of ways to characterize him as a moderate. ACA and gay rights alone don't make him a progressive.
    ACA wasn't progressive at all.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeaconBrews View Post
    Was President Obama considered a moderate when he ran though?
    By Democrats? Kinda. Really didn't matter because he wasn't Hillary.
    By Republicans? All Democrats are the most liberal EVAR

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheCaptain View Post
    Well, frankly, I was more aligned with Hillary's positions than Bernie's, though I would have certainly voted for him in the General. I don't think he would've won the General against Trump but
    I think this election shows that the Democratic primary is far too influenced by southern Republican states. A Democrat that carries Alabama and South Carolina in the primary may not have enough support from Ohio or Michigan to win the general election.

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    Draxx them sklounst

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by CHillDeac View Post
    Think Hawaii Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard. She's a 36 year old Iraq War Vet and member of the House Armed Services Committee She served as Vice Chair of the DNC before resigning to openly support Bernie Sanders. Supposedly there was a big rift between her and Wasserman-Schultz and Donna Brazile who were both on the Hillary train.

    “As a veteran, as a soldier, I’ve seen firsthand the true cost of war,” she said, calling it a “necessity” to “have a commander-in-chief who has foresight, who exercises good judgment, who looks at the consequences of the actions that they are looking to take before they take those actions, so that we don’t continue to find ourselves in these failures that have resulted in chaos in the Middle East and so much loss of life.”

    Some good background here:

    http://www.salon.com/2016/02/28/dnc_...ange_policies/




    and she's a surfer

    Yes, please.

  13. #73
    The whole point of loyalty is that you can count on it, we should be expending more effort to inspire independents than to stroke the base.

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  14. #74
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    Obama campaigned as a liberal in 2008. I was really excited about it too. He governed as a moderate. It has been a huge disappointment. I wonder what things would have been like without the economy cratering during that campaign? I think that altered the agenda for sure. Probably also increased motivations for obstructionism. FDR built a ton of capital by bringing back the economy from the brink, and like infrastructure spending, the opposition party doesn't want to just hand that over.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by myDeaconmyhand View Post
    The whole point of loyalty is that you can count on it, we should be expending more effort to inspire independents than to stroke the base.

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    right, but a guy like bernie appeals to the left of the base. not sure he's picking up the socially liberal/economically conservative undecideds on #BirdieSanders alone

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheCaptain View Post
    right, but a guy like bernie appeals to the left of the base. not sure he's picking up the socially liberal/economically conservative undecideds on #BirdieSanders alone
    I think you are discounting the overlap of his and Donald Trump's populist message. Hillary didn't lose Obama voters in Michigan and Pennsylvania on liberal economics. She is an uninspiring elitist Washington sell-out.

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  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by myDeaconmyhand View Post
    stroke the base.
    ..

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by myDeaconmyhand View Post
    I think you are discounting the overlap of his and Donald Trump's populist message. Hillary didn't lose Obama voters in Michigan and Pennsylvania on liberal economics.

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    woof, man I don't know. Your faith in humanity is different than mine.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by simosfrostyone View Post
    There is a reason the GOP controls the WH, Senate, House and most of the statehouses. And Obama's agenda was anything but moderate, regardless of how you wish to characterize it. If the Dems keep going in the same direction they are capped on how successful they can be.

  20. #80
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    you don't think OWG the turn out would've been flamed higher with the threat of a true Communist? possible the lack Hillary the Criminal baggage may have helped offset that.

    i'm just skeptical that enough people are buying that message

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