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The Insane Cost of Attending Wake Forest

Brangus said:
What this thread has taught me:

1. Wake grads have a pretty weird complex about tiny Davidson College. Not sure why. Nice little selective liberal arts school, not a university, not the same kind of school as Wake, apples and oranges. But the obsession.....?

2. Nobody on here has the vaguest idea whether or not any of the Wake Will campaign money will go towards lowering tuition as was originally contemplated when the campaign was rolled out. That was definitely part of the original marketing and justification for the capital campaign. If there's no decrease in tuition and overall student cost after they trolled all that money, then fuck admin and the school in general.
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Was that goal put in any of the written marketing material?
 
Buttermaker said:
Was that goal put in any of the written marketing material?
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Yes it was. Rogan Kersh also came to Tampa to speak when the campaign was in the kickoff phase, and he stated that one of Wake's goals was to lower overall tuition (not just those qualifying for assistance), and that tuition was high in part because the school's endowment and alumni gifting rate was too low. Oh well.
 
Brangus said:
Yes it was. Rogan Kersh also came to Tampa to speak when the campaign was in the kickoff phase, and he stated that one of Wake's goals was to lower overall tuition (not just those qualifying for assistance), and that tuition was high in part because the school's endowment and alumni gifting rate was too low. Oh well.
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Well, shame on him for saying it because there's no way he could have possibly believed that Wake was going to lower its tuition to 10% or 15% below peer institutions. It doesn't make sense from a market standpoint. Maybe if Wake Will raised $5 billion we would hold the line on tuition, but that was never going to happen.
 
BiffTannen said:
Well, shame on him for saying it because there's no way he could have possibly believed that Wake was going to lower its tuition to 10% or 15% below peer institutions. It doesn't make sense from a market standpoint. Maybe if Wake Will raised $5 billion we would hold the line on tuition, but that was never going to happen.
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It's just hard to finally accept that I can never send my kids to my alma mater. I think some of Wake's spending on student comforts and administration the last few years has been questionable, but it just doesn't matter.

The Wake I went to in the late 1990's is long gone anyway. The campus and student population are very different. Wake is now Vandy-East. So be it. I'll write my checks to UF.
 
Brangus said:
So I ran the cost calculator in the link at my original post. My wife and I both work and we have modest savings and minimal debt. No luxury life/second home, no club memberships, just a 2000 sq. foot house and two cars (Ford an Volkswagen SUVs, paid off) two kids and a dog and a summer vacation to a VRBO somewhere in the country every year.

My Wake freight if my daughter was starting next year: $71,000. And that's with the silly $1,500 cost of living allowance.

So let's make it $90,000 a year just to play somewhat honest ball. $360K for an undergrad degree and grad school likely to follow?

Nope. Disgusting.

Go Gators!

Or USF Bulls?:wtf:
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Try experimenting with one of those college calculators. A ballpark estimate is the calculator will say you can put 30% of your income toward your child's school. So it would be about $25-30k per child in your scenario above. Parents cost will pretty much be a wash across schools. The difference is student debt. When considering schools, it will look like this

UNC - $25k, 0 debt
Duke - $30k, $5k annual debt
Wake's debt average is about $7-$10k. With so many paying full freight with no debt, I am not sure how skewed that average is for folks in your given scenario.

My guess behind Wake Will is that it would work toward being in a position like Duke, and limit debt to $5k; but with Wake no longer having need-blind admissions, recruiting the wealthy regions heavily, no SAT, etc, it seems Wake is in it to maximize profit at the expense of educating smart kids from middle class families. Pro Humanitate.

Personally, we are debt averse - especially in undergrad. Our daughter will probably go to graduate school, whose school will eclipse her undergrad school and obviously lengthen her years in college.

School debt is affecting life decisions for young people - when to buy a house, start a family, etc. A certain degree of freedom is at stake.
 
Brangus said:
It's just hard to finally accept that I can never send my kids to my alma mater. I think some of Wake's spending on student comforts and administration the last few years has been questionable, but it just doesn't matter.

The Wake I went to in the late 1990's is long gone anyway. The campus and student population are very different. Wake is now Vandy-East. So be it. I'll write my checks to UF.
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Our situations are similar. I feel for you.
 
One way it can be considered is to think of the cost of one full-time PhD tutor or teacher.

For about that, you get two semester's worth of room and board, books, exposure to multiple teachers/classes, campus life, etc.

Of course you can get all that for about 1/3 the price at a public school. So you have to decide if the potential advantage of an elite (or very good or whatever) private school is worth it for you/yours.

Again, I wouldn't recommend anyone take on a lot of debt to go to any private school (for undergrad degree).
 
I don't have any kids yet but this still brings up a very interesting topic on the future of education.

I think it's highly unlikely my future grandchildren go to college. I think it's a coin flip on whether or not my future children attend a university (~25 years away). When you think about it, what higher education provides is quickly becoming archaic.

Universities used to form because that's where the best professors were. They were accredited and could teach you important materials, and verify that you learned them. But that's no longer the only place to get this. In fact, students are limiting themselves by only getting to interact with a few teachers that are teaching relatively standard versions of materials.

Compare that to what the internet has enabled. You now have curriculum that can be highly customized not only to the interests but also the abilities of the individual. You have a way to verify and credential individuals, and this can all be done at virtually no cost. And you're not limited to just the teachers at that one university, but learn from the best of the best (likely because teachers/professors will shift towards this model as they can increase their global reach and likely salary).

There are points to be made about the value of universities beyond the education but I think that can be replaced. Imagine a university that provided dorms, sports, clubs, etc. but all of the classes were online. Instead of going to classes, you just sat in your room or an office and learned your customized curriculum. I'd imagine this could be done at a fraction of the price, and far less for people that don't want to attend the university but just take classes at home.
 
Yea, I’ve speculated for a while that universities are facing a difficult future.

I think some will survive, but many will not.

Even today, you can learn practically anything on your own via the Internet. Hard to believe there won’t be entire curricula and programs available for little cost moving forward.

So to survive as a place they’re going to have to offer things you just can’t get online. Social aspects of projects and interactive learning, etc. (?)
 
Hard to say that when the ones that will be responsible for the jobs in the future are the same people who have attended or will be attending a university. Would take a pretty dramatic shift to move away from the idea that to get a good job you must attend college.
 
The future of universities: The digital degree

Quote
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...The universities least likely to lose out to online competitors are elite institutions with established reputations and low student-to-tutor ratios. That is good news for the Ivy League, Oxbridge and co, which offer networking opportunities to students alongside a degree. Students at universities just below Ivy League level are more sensitive to the rising cost of degrees, because the return on investment is smaller. Those colleges might profit from expanding the ratio of online learning to classroom teaching, lowering their costs while still offering the prize of a college education conducted partly on campus.

The most vulnerable, according to Jim Lerman of Kean University in New Jersey, are the “middle-tier institutions, which produce America’s teachers, middle managers and administrators”. They could be replaced in greater part by online courses, he suggests. So might weaker community colleges, although those which cultivate connections to local employers might yet prove resilient...
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Louis Gossett Jr said:
Hard to say that when the ones that will be responsible for the jobs in the future are the same people who have attended or will be attending a university. Would take a pretty dramatic shift to move away from the idea that to get a good job you must attend college.
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We're already seeing it in pockets, especially on the tech side.

When I can evaluate your previous work from things like GitHub or open source projects, that tells me far more about your abilities than which university you attended. Similarly with online media. If I can see what I'm getting I don't need the university to be the one credentialing you.

But what about for soft skills or jobs where your work isn't as easily shared/digested? Blockchain may provide a solution?

 
Can’t see it anytime soon for professional careers like lawyer or doctor but maybe others. I suppose if enough people that went to SNHU online get in positions of hiring then they wouldn’t look down on online degrees and it could reach a point of exponential expansion.
 
ConnorEl said:
Yea, I’ve speculated for a while that universities are facing a difficult future.

I think some will survive, but many will not.

Even today, you can learn practically anything on your own via the Internet. Hard to believe there won’t be entire curricula and programs available for little cost moving forward.

So to survive as a place they’re going to have to offer things you just can’t get online. Social aspects of projects and interactive learning, etc. (?)
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So the stuff universities have been doing for many years.
 
Okay here it is.

I want to build a university with no teachers (sorry PH). There are still dorms, sports, clubs, etc. but all classes are online. Customized curriculum to students' interests and abilities. Education from the best teachers around the world. At a fraction of today's costs.

Enrollment begins online and no application/acceptance process. After your first semester, you can apply to attend the in-person university. Highest scores from the first semester are accepted (likely also to have to fall in something like a 16 - 22 age range though that's open for discussion). Anyone not accepted or that does not wish to attend in person can continue their education online.

Curriculum is highly specialized to each individual, both interests and abilities. Companies can sponsor tracks that properly prepare students for entry-level roles at their company, even creating a hiring pipeline.

In-person would include classrooms where students can congregate for classes. Opportunities to partner on projects or general co-learning. Outside of class, they still get many of the developmental and social components to attending university.

And again all of this would be significantly cheaper than college, and likely better preparing the students for their careers. Largest obstacle would be job placement early on but I think those types of company sponsored tracks would be a good first step. Would have to put additional effort here.
 
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