Wrangor
Go Deacs
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2011
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There's a lot here to respond to and I will try to come back later, but two quick things.
1. While I agree with you that there are other arguments that could be used than moral ones with certain subsets of the population, I think it's shocking to a lot of people that you would need to go beyond the moral in this case. This isn't really a gray area. Using threats to little kids as deterrents, hostages, or bargain chips in negotiations, kidnapping them under the guise of "giving them a bath,"-- these things are morally abhorrent. There's an element of "how could you NOT think that way" that makes other arguments difficult to consider. Especially since this was a decision made by this administration that could be rescinded instantly. There is no law that requires this.
2. Where is the evidence that illegal immigration is a real problem that requires such drastic measures? It's not crime (despite the Trump racist fearmongering), because immigrants commit fewer crimes than natives do. It's not the economy: economists largely agree that MORE immigration, not less, would be the best thing economically, and the data don't support the "they're taking your jobs" rhetoric.
To be clear, I'm not saying we shouldn't try for reform. And we could argue about what exactly that would look like. But jeez, can't we all agree that the travesty at our borders this administration has caused isn't the answer?
1. If morality arguments worked, then the pro lifers would have banned abortion a long time ago. They don’t work because people operate on the assumption that they are on the right side of morality. So when shoo says that morality arguments are all you need, what he means is that MY morality arguments are right and yours are wrong. I will not say never, but the amount of times people take a political stance and willingly stand on the wrong side of morality has to be minuscule.
2. Clearly our admin was elected in large part because of his stance on illegal immigration. Thus it is a problem he will address. I tend to agree that our borders are too wide open (but also believe that our legal immigration system is archaic). But you saying it isn’t a problem is almost irrelevant. He was elected to address this issue. He is going to address it.
I wish we had more South American / Central American immigrants. I believe them to be a massive boost to our economy and country. I also think we should have them immigrate legally. But our system is broken and these people are desperate so they will do anything to get here. I get that. I would be doing the same thing. So I don’t blame them. I really blame our govt for not addressing this issue. Trump is abhorrent but this action is a symptom of the disease of inactivity. He is just the manifestation of years of pushing it down the road. I blame him and I also blame all the empty promises of Obama’s, Bush, Clinton, and the thousands of other politicians that claimed they were going to address this issue and never did (and don’t feed me the BS about Obama reducing illegal immigration...we all know that is complete crap).
So when we finally have someone who will do something it isn’t someone who is brave, it is someone who doesn’t give a flip about anyone and we end up with a shortsighted cruel policy. It’s sucks. But we need to keep our eyes on the root while lamenting the fruit.
The reality is that this will help his poll numbers. So congress better figure something out. I don’t see him backing off.