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Legit QB Convo

So Hinton's almost 300 yards total offense with 2 TD passes and 0 turnovers is deceiving because a lot of it came in the 4th quarter against Clemson subs. Well Hinton was a sub too, so sub against subs, sounds even to me. Except Clemson's subs were National Champion subs on a team that has actually built quality depth, which is just a pipedream at WF. Think those subs played hard when they got their chance? How many of those Clemson subs last year are Clemson first teamers this year? Those Clemson subs were also rubbing the rock on their home field with 80,000+ Tiger fans watching. What about Dabo and Venables, ever watch them on the sidelines? Think they had quit trying in the 4th quarter of a game that ended up 28-14, when they're trying to get their defending champs back to another 4 team NC playoff. So think or say what you want, my opinion is that Hinton played very well against, yes the best team (he played against first string too) that anybody on the Deacon team has ever played against.
All I know about Hinton is what I've seen on the field. Have no idea what he was suspended 3 games for, and if I knew I'm confident I would not approve. But if the suspension was 3 games, then it's over, let's get his explosiveness back out their regularly, helping the team. After all, even Grobe let that knothead Barclay play when the suspension was over.
 
Granted, we just came off a really tough test, but we have a few more really tough tests ahead, so in that vein, I think we go Hinton from here on out unless he is awful.

At this point he is better suited to the RPO Offense we are running and is also more durable.

Hartman needs another year to learn the O, and add some muscle for increased speed and durability. I like what I have seen from him so far, but I think Hinton is the best play for right now if we want to have a winning season.

Just my .02
 
If we want a winning season, WF needs to fix the defense. The offense has not been the problem.

I like all 3 of our QBs; deciding how to get the most from each is a good problem to have. Unless there is a massive change in Clawson's thinking, Hartman will continue to start, but Newman and Hinton will play.
 
We need better line play if we are going to make it to a bowl. What I saw at the game was a line that is struggling to protect the QB and a defense that cannot get off the field. Clawson firing the DC was a move in the right direction, but I am curious as to how we are going to improve with the o-line and defense.
 
tigerswood said:
I guess you can’t think this way as a coach, but it seems pretty evident a lower tier bowl game is now our ceiling (which is of course the roof). Wouldn’t we rather have a RSr Hartman trying to make an orange bowl run rather than use a full year of eligibility trying to eek out a bid to Detroit?
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You can't think that way as a fan either. Hindsight is rarely reliable. We have no idea what the state of our program will be by the 2023 Orange Bowl. That's forever away. Hartman could end up with a career ending injury this afternoon, in the off-season or at any point in the next 5 years. We could recruit a stud QB that starts as a freshman at any point between now and then. There are any number of things that could happen. The idea that you sit a guy now hoping for a result in January 2023 is absurd. You play the players that give you the best chance to win, TODAY. Winning = recruiting = more winning.
 
RacerDeac said:
You can't think that way as a fan either. Hindsight is rarely reliable. We have no idea what the state of our program will be by the 2023 Orange Bowl. That's forever away. Hartman could end up with a career ending injury this afternoon, in the off-season or at any point in the next 5 years. We could recruit a stud QB that starts as a freshman at any point between now and then. There are any number of things that could happen. The idea that you sit a guy now hoping for a result in January 2023 is absurd. You play the players that give you the best chance to win, TODAY. Winning = recruiting = more winning.
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Yeah, this makes sense.

However, as an outsider, I would think Hinton at QB would give us the best chance to win, today. Clearly, Clawson disagrees and has done a lot to earn our trust.
 
RacerDeac said:
You can't think that way as a fan either. Hindsight is rarely reliable. We have no idea what the state of our program will be by the 2023 Orange Bowl. That's forever away. Hartman could end up with a career ending injury this afternoon, in the off-season or at any point in the next 5 years. We could recruit a stud QB that starts as a freshman at any point between now and then. There are any number of things that could happen. The idea that you sit a guy now hoping for a result in January 2023 is absurd. You play the players that give you the best chance to win, TODAY. Winning = recruiting = more winning.
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True, but Hinton and Newman give us the best chance to win this year. Hartman is going to get killed. Look at his legs- he’s not physically ready yet, has no experience and defenses are blitzing the hell out of him. He’s not ready to run the RPO either.
 
tigerswood said:
Yeah, this makes sense.

However, as an outsider, I would think Hinton at QB would give us the best chance to win, today. Clearly, Clawson disagrees and has done a lot to earn our trust.
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Sure, if Hartman isn't our best chance at winning, sit him, but that's not the basis of the argument you made for sitting Hartman now so we have him in Y5.

wfu22fan said:
True, but Hinton and Newman give us the best chance to win this year. Hartman is going to get killed. Look at his legs- he’s not physically ready yet, has no experience and defenses are blitzing the hell out of him. He’s not ready to run the RPO either.
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Ehh, I'll go with coach on this one rather than the opinion of a handful of frustrated fans after a bad loss that have only seen a few minutes of Hinton and Newman. If the other players give us a better shot at winning, I'm pretty damn confident that Clawson will play them. Until then, I'll assume Hartman is that guy.
 
I at least understand a tiny piece of the Hinton argument even if I disagree with it. Asserting that Newman gives us a better chance to win after some of the absolute dimes Hartman has dropped into the endzone this year is completely absurd.
 
Rice gave Houston fits and Houston is a very good team. We are favored by 24 which is crazy because if we win this it's is a 31-21 kind of game ... or maybe more like 38-28 because we know we can't stop them.

We will be able to run the ball against them so everyone agrees we go with Hinton and Newman and let Hartman sit this one out.
 
DCDeac said:
I at least understand a tiny piece of the Hinton argument even if I disagree with it. Asserting that Newman gives us a better chance to win after some of the absolute dimes Hartman has dropped into the endzone this year is completely absurd.
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The idea behind Newman is that he was even with Hartman in camp and he showed Saturday that he’s an effective power runner.
 
Newman also threw a pick on his first pass (when the receiver was open) and he then never threw another pass more than a 3 yards beyond the LOS. I can see using Newman during a game as a change of pace, but until Newman can prove he can complete a downfield pass, he would be an easy QB to prep for.
 
By your logic, Newman threw 7 passes and he doesn’t deserve another shot in a game until he can prove he can throw passes beyond 3 yards in a game. I guess that means Newman shouldn’t play unless we are up big which would require Hartman to play well enough to get up big. That essentially locks in Hartman.
 
Never said Newman doesn't deserve a shot. He will continue to get chances to play (Clawson said as much after the game on Saturday), but I don't think its going to be on WF's opening drive on Saturday (which is also what Clawson said on Saturday, i.e., that Hartman would start).
 
Over 4 seasons, Hinton is 131 of 243 for 1502 with 8 TDs and 6 ints. Combined with 728 yards rushing and 11 TDs on 165 carries.

These numbers are better than I thought they would be. They are not world beater numbers by any means, but still better than I thought. Wake is not losing games right now because of Sam Hartman, but that doesn't mean our offense still can't be improved. I was very intrigued by the offense we saw in the second half, with Newman and Hinton rotating in at QB, gaining yards on the ground. I expect to see more of that in the future. Its not ideal, but it keeps defenses guessing and it keeps Hartman from taking a ton of hits. Hinton and Newman both showed they can move the ball on the ground, and I think Hinton is enough of a threat through the air to keep defenses honest.

Whatever it takes to get to 6 this year, even if that means using 3 QBs.
 
TimmyClutch said:
Over 4 seasons, Hinton is 131 of 243 for 1502 with 8 TDs and 6 ints. Combined with 728 yards rushing and 11 TDs on 165 carries.

These numbers are better than I thought they would be. They are not world beater numbers by any means, but still better than I thought. Wake is not losing games right now because of Sam Hartman, but that doesn't mean our offense still can't be improved. I was very intrigued by the offense we saw in the second half, with Newman and Hinton rotating in at QB, gaining yards on the ground. I expect to see more of that in the future. Its not ideal, but it keeps defenses guessing and it keeps Hartman from taking a ton of hits. Hinton and Newman both showed they can move the ball on the ground, and I think Hinton is enough of a threat through the air to keep defenses honest.

Whatever it takes to get to 6 this year, even if that means using 3 QBs.
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Remember that most of those stats came during 2015 and 2 games in 2016, when our offense was total crap.
 
Only reason why Hinton got in at qb was because Newman's helmet came off and he was required to exit the game.
 
TimmyClutch said:
Over 4 seasons, Hinton is 131 of 243 for 1502 with 8 TDs and 6 ints. Combined with 728 yards rushing and 11 TDs on 165 carries.

These numbers are better than I thought they would be. They are not world beater numbers by any means, but still better than I thought. Wake is not losing games right now because of Sam Hartman, but that doesn't mean our offense still can't be improved. I was very intrigued by the offense we saw in the second half, with Newman and Hinton rotating in at QB, gaining yards on the ground. I expect to see more of that in the future. Its not ideal, but it keeps defenses guessing and it keeps Hartman from taking a ton of hits. Hinton and Newman both showed they can move the ball on the ground, and I think Hinton is enough of a threat through the air to keep defenses honest.

Whatever it takes to get to 6 this year, even if that means using 3 QBs.
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That was in the second half against Notre Dame's reserves much like last year's game when they went up by 4 or 5 touchdowns but just won by 2. But everyone agrees we can run it against Towson and will win 38-28 or 41-28 and Hartman should not see the field. He needs a week to recuperate.
 
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