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Future of black nfl coaches a concern

stevewhite14 said:
Just win
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Much easier to do if you have good players who are healthy. Wilks, in particular, didn't have that in the desert.

I will be surprised if Marvin Lewis successor does better than Lewis did in Cinci. Owner there is known for doing everything on the cheap.
 
The coaching carousel will start looking more fair when black coaches start getting recycled. Position coach to coordinator to HC to fired HC to coordinator elsewhere to HC again. An NFL head coach in his tenth season or more with the same team is a rarity. It will be interesting to see if Gruden finishes that 10 year deal with rhe Raiders.
 
How long was Marvin Lewis at Cincy? How many playoff games did he win? Canning the Cards coach after one year does seem quick.
 
Buttermaker said:
How long was Marvin Lewis at Cincy? How many playoff games did he win? Canning the Cards coach after one year does seem quick.
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Lewis probably got as much out of mediocre rosters as could be expected. He won games and conference titles. He didn't have post season success. We will see if the Bengals are better or worse with somebody else.

The GM in AZ needs to go as well. Most of the roster Wilks had to work with was barely better than Practice Squad material.
 
Lewis is a good guy. Has a summer home near me. Always very nice to talk to and very realistic about his team. He jokingly thanked me for Bates after he learned I went to Wake.
 
I’m not that worried because things are trending in the right direction overall.

The analysis on black coaches has been that they’re getting hired more but get hired into bad situations and get fired too early.

We can look at history and see that’s true. Tony Dungy got fired after making the playoffs five straight years with the freaking Bucs but not advancing in three years. Obviously the Bucs won the SB next year under Gruden led by the defense he constructed (and the Tampa 2 is still a popular defense around the league even as offenses have evolved). Dungy went on to win two SBs in Indy. Bucs fans still regret firing Dungy. He coached for six seasons 18 years ago and he still lives in Tampa. He’s the most beloved person in the area.

Caldwell has the highest winning percentage in modern Lions history. Only coach since 72 to finish his stint with a winning record.

Art Shell with the Raiders is another example.

This year there were 5 rookie QBs. Two started from Game 1, the other three eventually started. When you start a rookie QB (often with pressure from the front office or complete lack of other options) it’s an admission you’re willing to take some bumps for a long term benefit. Three of those coaches were black and all three got fired (Jackson, Bowles, and Wilks).

I don’t think Hue Jackson got a raw deal but Bowles did pretty well for the Jets and Wilks never got a chance.
 
To Many

To many black players on college basketball teams....A Concern???????:bowrofl:
 
PhDeac said:
I’m not that worried because things are trending in the right direction overall.

The analysis on black coaches has been that they’re getting hired more but get hired into bad situations and get fired too early.

We can look at history and see that’s true. Tony Dungy got fired after making the playoffs five straight years with the freaking Bucs but not advancing in three years. Obviously the Bucs won the SB next year under Gruden led by the defense he constructed (and the Tampa 2 is still a popular defense around the league even as offenses have evolved). Dungy went on to win two SBs in Indy. Bucs fans still regret firing Dungy. He coached for six seasons 18 years ago and he still lives in Tampa. He’s the most beloved person in the area.

Caldwell has the highest winning percentage in modern Lions history. Only coach since 72 to finish his stint with a winning record.

Art Shell with the Raiders is another example.

This year there were 5 rookie QBs. Two started from Game 1, the other three eventually started. When you start a rookie QB (often with pressure from the front office or complete lack of other options) it’s an admission you’re willing to take some bumps for a long term benefit. Three of those coaches were black and all three got fired (Jackson, Bowles, and Wilks).

I don’t think Hue Jackson got a raw deal but Bowles did pretty well for the Jets and Wilks never got a chance.
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Bad teams are usually in the market for new coaches because they had bad seasons. So it isn't surprising that newly hired coaches inherit bad teams. Every once in a while a coach retires from a good team. IMHO, best job open right now may be in Green Bay.

Dungey got a really bad deal in Tampa but rebounded from it. Coaches who do a good job building a program usually get to benefit from the build and get fired later, when it starts dropping from the peak they produced.
 
Off the top of my head, Dungy and Caldwell with the Colts, Tomlin, and Joseph are the only black coaches hired to franchises with an overall winning record. Maybe the Raiders had one when they hired Shell but I doubt it.

Obviously “losing” teams hire new coaches but there’s a big difference between the Browns hiring Jackson after 8 straight coaches who couldn’t crack .400 and the Colts hiring Dungy after Jim Mora had one bad season.
 
I understand the hand-wringing over Wilks. I agree that Lewis is a good guy, but he had sixteen years to win a playoff game and couldn't do it. While I'm sure Ron Wellman would have signed him to a lengthy extension with a generous bonus, reasonable people get that it was time for a change in Cincy.
 
Yeah. Lewis had plenty of time. But getting the Bengals to consistently mediocre was a huge accomplishment. The odds of the next coach going over .500 are very slim.
 
Deaconblue said:
Much easier to do if you have good players who are healthy. Wilks, in particular, didn't have that in the desert.

I will be surprised if Marvin Lewis successor does better than Lewis did in Cinci. Owner there is known for doing everything on the cheap.
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About 10 coaches have been fired in the past decade after just one season. Some of them were white men with better records than Wilkes.

I would give a coach more time unless you just find out he’s not your guy. But firing coaches after a year happens with some frequency, regardless of the coach’s race.
 
PhDeac said:
I’m not that worried because things are trending in the right direction overall.

The analysis on black coaches has been that they’re getting hired more but get hired into bad situations and get fired too early.

We can look at history and see that’s true. Tony Dungy got fired after making the playoffs five straight years with the freaking Bucs but not advancing in three years. Obviously the Bucs won the SB next year under Gruden led by the defense he constructed (and the Tampa 2 is still a popular defense around the league even as offenses have evolved). Dungy went on to win two SBs in Indy. Bucs fans still regret firing Dungy. He coached for six seasons 18 years ago and he still lives in Tampa. He’s the most beloved person in the area.

Caldwell has the highest winning percentage in modern Lions history. Only coach since 72 to finish his stint with a winning record.

Art Shell with the Raiders is another example.

This year there were 5 rookie QBs. Two started from Game 1, the other three eventually started. When you start a rookie QB (often with pressure from the front office or complete lack of other options) it’s an admission you’re willing to take some bumps for a long term benefit. Three of those coaches were black and all three got fired (Jackson, Bowles, and Wilks).

I don’t think Hue Jackson got a raw deal but Bowles did pretty well for the Jets and Wilks never got a chance.
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Cleveland's record since the firing shows that Jackson didn't get a raw deal. I would argue that Bowles and Marvin Lewis did pretty much as well as they could given their talent levels. The Jets have had very little talent the last 4 years, but I think that decision had less to do with Bowles overall record than it does wanting to bring in an offensive coach to work with a young QB. After everyone saw what McVay did with Goff, that's what most of these teams with young QBs are looking for. And Lewis was 5-3 this year and then Dalton, AJ Green and Boyd went on IR. It almost sounded a bit mutual that Lewis was being let go. I think Lewis and Bowles will get HC gigs again, probably for teams with established QBs given that they're defensive guys. I'm not as sure about Wilks. Arizona wasn't remotely competitive, though I agree Keim should go as well because the roster sucks. Detroit was stupid to get rid of Caldwell. He instilled discipline into the most undisciplined roster in the league under Schwartz and made the playoffs a couple of times with a roster that had a QB, a couple of WRs and not much else. They were the Colts of the NFC. But it was a case of a new Patriot GM wanting his Patriot coach, never mind their D was worse under him than it was under Austin. I think Caldwell gets another HC job this year or next. He's a good QB coach, so he might be a fit with 1 of these young QBs if he brings a good OC with him.
 
Cleveland’s record is also due to a OROY QB rounding into form. I don’t think much of Hue Jackson but I also don’t think the rest of the season is a huge indictment against him.
 
Dude it absolutely is. You could see his ineptitude on Hard Knocks. He’s a terrible coach.
 
PhDeac said:
Cleveland’s record is also due to a OROY QB rounding into form. I don’t think much of Hue Jackson but I also don’t think the rest of the season is a huge indictment against him.
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