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Totally Unofficial 2019/2020 Premier League Thread (NWT)

outplayed Wolves but a brilliant strike (despite the East German judge not liking it) and a mediocre penalty take prevented the full 3 points going back to Manchester


only 2 clubs have maximum points through 2 matches. And no more than 1 will be able to claim 100% after 3 this saturday. MOST COMPETITIVE LEAGUE IN THE WORLD
 
outplayed Wolves but a brilliant strike (despite the East German judge not liking it) and a mediocre penalty take prevented the full 3 points going back to Manchester


only 2 clubs have maximum points through 2 matches. And no more than 1 will be able to claim 100% after 3 this saturday. MOST COMPETITIVE LEAGUE IN THE WORLD

Don't misrepresent me! Strike was even more impressive since his first touch popped the ball up. Second touch was great, finish was fabulous.
 
Pogba 8/11 on penalties last season

Rashford 1/1 on penalties last season

Sounded like Ole said post-match that Rashford is the taker unless another player “is feeling it.” He wants the players to sort it out in the moment. That’s not an ideal situation in my mind.
 
Sounded like Ole said post-match that Rashford is the taker unless another player “is feeling it.” He wants the players to sort it out in the moment. That’s not an ideal situation in my mind.

Not really what he said, he said that Rashford and Pogba are 1A and 1B penalty takers and whichever is "feeling confident" can take it. So far Rashford has taken the penalty that he earned and Pogba has taken the penalty that he earned.

You should check out M. Ogden's inane commentary on espnfc about how the missed penalty is showing that United lack "leadership" and "direction".
Pogba scores the penalty and that tripe is never written. So reactionary it is pathetic.
 
giphy.gif
 
Don't misrepresent me! Strike was even more impressive since his first touch popped the ball up. Second touch was great, finish was fabulous.

The ball was really fizzed in there from Moutinho, I think he sorted his feet out impressively to get such great contact on the ball with so many players in front of him.
 
Not really what he said, he said that Rashford and Pogba are 1A and 1B penalty takers and whichever is "feeling confident" can take it. So far Rashford has taken the penalty that he earned and Pogba has taken the penalty that he earned.

You should check out M. Ogden's inane commentary on espnfc about how the missed penalty is showing that United lack "leadership" and "direction".
Pogba scores the penalty and that tripe is never written. So reactionary it is pathetic.

He who draws the penalty should be required to take it.
 
Copy and pasted from The Athletic.


The Y-word?


By Jack Pitt-Brooke Aug 13, 2019 109
At the end of the minute of applause for Justin Edinburgh on Saturday afternoon, just before the game kicked off, thousands of Spurs fans paid another tribute to their former player after his tragic death in June. They chanted “Yiddo, Yiddo”, and it was a heartfelt expression of fraternity and love.

Christian Eriksen got similar treatment when he came on, and Tanguy Ndombele when he went off. That chant, along with “Yid Army!”, is part of the furniture at the new White Hart Lane, just as it was at the old one. Going to football is about identifying with a community, and these words, viewed by Jewish groups as a slur, are part of how many Spurs fans do that.

It is an uneasy balance and one that could soon change. Last week Tottenham Hotspur emailed their supporters to open a consultation on whether they should continue to use the Y-word at games. Spurs fans have until Sunday to tell the club how they feel about the issue and what the word means to them, through a series of multiple-choice questions and the chance to agree or disagree with various statements and tweets.

It is a brave move by the club to reopen one of the English football’s most difficult debates. Racism and antisemitism are on the rise in football and in society. Any complacency that these issues had been solved, or even agreed upon, should have been knocked out of us all by now. With growing racism there should also be growing vigilance. The Community Security Trust (CST) describe the Y-word as an “antisemitic insult”. So, given all that, can it be used as a sign of affection? Can a slur not be a slur if it is meant to be inclusive?

The history of Spurs fans’ use of the word is told as a positive story of reclamation, defence against racism and even allyship. Spurs were traditionally the Jewish club of north London but they faced antisemitic abuse, much of it centred around the word ‘Yid’. When Tottenham fans chose to use the word themselves, about themselves, they did so to make it their own and, the theory went, to rob it of its hateful force. It was about pride in Spurs’ Jewish heritage but also disarming the antisemitism they faced at grounds around the country. Spurs fans speak of the empowering feeling of using it as the ultimate riposte to abuse.

Stephen Pollard has been going to Tottenham since the 1970s and is the editor of the Jewish Chronicle. “I will proudly chant ‘Come on you Yids,’” he says. “You cannot ignore the question of intent. I think it is ludicrous to describe something that is said with affection, by people who mean it with affection, towards people who receive it with affection, as being racist.”

The modern reality of the Tottenham crowd is that only a small minority of their fans are Jewish. Most of the people using these words are not Jewish. So, is Pollard comfortable with non-Jews using this word as widely as they do? “I am not just comfortable, I think it is fantastic that they do,” he says. “I love the fact that they have adopted the word. You cannot ignore the history of it. It started off as a way to remove it of its potency as an insult from other fans. I love the fact that non-Jewish fans now use the word as a description for being a Spurs fan.”

But there is no getting past the fact that there are plenty of people who are deeply uncomfortable with the word being used in any context.

“The Y-word is an antisemitic insult,” says Dave Rich of the CST. “That is what it is historically, that is still how it gets used in ordinary day-to-day street context. It cannot be a good thing to have thousands of football fans all chanting a racist insult in a football ground, whatever their motivations are for doing so. It is that simple for us.”

The CST has just published its latest report on antisemitism in the UK, showing a record high of 892 antisemitic incidents in the first six months of 2019. This is 10 percent higher than the 810 incidents recorded from January to June 2018, which was itself a record. The CST’s total figure for 2018 of 1,688 incidents was also an annual record. The figures for February and March 2019 made them the joint-fourth and sixth worst months for antisemitic incidents since CST records began in 1984. When antisemitism is worse than ever before, it raises the question of how meaningful deflecting or disarming it can really be.

“Because antisemitism has become much more of an issue, and has been increasing in recent years,” says Rich, “perhaps that’s a reason why people are now looking again at the Y-word and thinking it is not okay to just give it a free pass.”

Kick It Out are just as clear. “We have clarified our policy on antisemitism and the use of the y-word on a number of occasions – we believe it has no place in football regardless of context, which we reiterated in the release of an antisemitism film and stewards training resource last year,” said a spokesperson. “As always, we support Tottenham Hotspur’s decision to open up a consultation for their fans and will continue to liaise with the club, as well as Jewish community organisations, to find a productive way of taking these conversations forward.”

In this view, the intent is irrelevant. The word is wrong and should never be used by anyone. In simple terms, this is not a word that we want to be in circulation. And if we want to live in a world where no one says it, then people just need to stop using it.

What if the best way to disarm antisemites is not to use the word but to stop using it?

There is an argument that even Spurs fans using it in their own way can give cover to antisemites at other clubs. Chelsea have found in their own antisemitism education campaign that some of their fans use the word because they associate it with Tottenham, not because of its antisemitic roots. There have been high-profile interventions by Jewish Chelsea fans, such as David Baddiel, who have campaigned against the use of the word. For Pollard, the connection between the two things is not so clear. “The entire argument is about Spurs fans being held responsible for the racism of other fans,” he says. “It is up to Chelsea and other clubs to sort out their own problems.”

Action Against Discrimination and its chairman Jonathan Metliss have taken a strong stance on the issue, calling on a ban to help the fight against antisemitism. “AAD strongly believes that these terms are abusive and offensive to the Jewish community and to Jewish people generally, and arguably a criminal offence as being an abusive term for a Jew,” said a statement. “It provokes and encourages antisemitic chanting from opposing supporters both at Tottenham and at other grounds around the country, particularly at Chelsea and West Ham, along with unacceptable antisemitic behaviour and statements on the internet. Antisemitism is racism.”

The link between Spurs fans’ usage and other fans’ usage is one of the many contested points of this debate. “There is not antisemitism because Tottenham fans call themselves ‘Yid Army’,” says Simon Johnson of the Jewish Leadership Council. “But it is my view that you will never eliminate antisemitism within football whilst Tottenham fans continue to call themselves the ‘Yid Army’. It is not part of the cause, and it would be unfair for anybody to say that it was. But there is no question that it would have to be part of the solution.”

Traditionally Tottenham have defended their fans’ right to use the words as a “badge of honour”, but even if the club’s position were to change it is difficult to see how it can be stopped.

The modern prevalence of the chant owes something to the last clumsy attempt to stamp it out six years ago. In September 2013 the Football Association decided that the word was “inappropriate in a football setting” and “could amount to a criminal offence”. Within weeks three Spurs fans had been arrested for using it and were charged with racially-aggravated public order offences. But in March 2014 the Crown Prosecution Service decided there was “insufficient evidence” to convict because of the context in which the words were used. This futile crackdown catalysed a new terrace chant: “They tried to stop us and look what it did, the thing I love most is being a Yid.”

Those failed prosecutions have hung over the issue ever since, and for some fans, the transgressive or improper nature of the word makes it more attractive. Especially as pushing boundaries of acceptable behaviour and inverting the meaning of words have always been part of being an English football fan. For some Spurs fans, this is part of their identity that can never be commoditised and sold back to them by the club. It will not be put on official mugs or hoodies sold in the club shop.

It is hard to imagine Spurs fans ever being convinced by anyone else to give these words up. Football fans have a tribal, defensive nature and do not like being lectured. Prosecutions have failed in the past and more would be counter-productive. Having stewards root out offenders at games would be totally impractical. Only a thoughtful, gradual, fan-led cultural change programme could ever make a difference, bringing fans with it rather than pushing them away.

“We’ve always said change on this issue has to come from within,” says Rich. “From within the club, from within Tottenham fans moving on from using that word. It cannot be enforced from the outside. So if this consultation is a step on that road, that can be a good thing.”
 
Copy and pasted from The Athletic.


The Y-word?


By Jack Pitt-Brooke Aug 13, 2019 109
At the end of the minute of applause for Justin Edinburgh on Saturday afternoon, just before the game kicked off, thousands of Spurs fans paid another tribute to their former player after his tragic death in June. They chanted “Yiddo, Yiddo”, and it was a heartfelt expression of fraternity and love.

Christian Eriksen got similar treatment when he came on, and Tanguy Ndombele when he went off. That chant, along with “Yid Army!”, is part of the furniture at the new White Hart Lane, just as it was at the old one. Going to football is about identifying with a community, and these words, viewed by Jewish groups as a slur, are part of how many Spurs fans do that.

It is an uneasy balance and one that could soon change. Last week Tottenham Hotspur emailed their supporters to open a consultation on whether they should continue to use the Y-word at games. Spurs fans have until Sunday to tell the club how they feel about the issue and what the word means to them, through a series of multiple-choice questions and the chance to agree or disagree with various statements and tweets.

It is a brave move by the club to reopen one of the English football’s most difficult debates. Racism and antisemitism are on the rise in football and in society. Any complacency that these issues had been solved, or even agreed upon, should have been knocked out of us all by now. With growing racism there should also be growing vigilance. The Community Security Trust (CST) describe the Y-word as an “antisemitic insult”. So, given all that, can it be used as a sign of affection? Can a slur not be a slur if it is meant to be inclusive?

The history of Spurs fans’ use of the word is told as a positive story of reclamation, defence against racism and even allyship. Spurs were traditionally the Jewish club of north London but they faced antisemitic abuse, much of it centred around the word ‘Yid’. When Tottenham fans chose to use the word themselves, about themselves, they did so to make it their own and, the theory went, to rob it of its hateful force. It was about pride in Spurs’ Jewish heritage but also disarming the antisemitism they faced at grounds around the country. Spurs fans speak of the empowering feeling of using it as the ultimate riposte to abuse.

Stephen Pollard has been going to Tottenham since the 1970s and is the editor of the Jewish Chronicle. “I will proudly chant ‘Come on you Yids,’” he says. “You cannot ignore the question of intent. I think it is ludicrous to describe something that is said with affection, by people who mean it with affection, towards people who receive it with affection, as being racist.”

The modern reality of the Tottenham crowd is that only a small minority of their fans are Jewish. Most of the people using these words are not Jewish. So, is Pollard comfortable with non-Jews using this word as widely as they do? “I am not just comfortable, I think it is fantastic that they do,” he says. “I love the fact that they have adopted the word. You cannot ignore the history of it. It started off as a way to remove it of its potency as an insult from other fans. I love the fact that non-Jewish fans now use the word as a description for being a Spurs fan.”

But there is no getting past the fact that there are plenty of people who are deeply uncomfortable with the word being used in any context.

“The Y-word is an antisemitic insult,” says Dave Rich of the CST. “That is what it is historically, that is still how it gets used in ordinary day-to-day street context. It cannot be a good thing to have thousands of football fans all chanting a racist insult in a football ground, whatever their motivations are for doing so. It is that simple for us.”

The CST has just published its latest report on antisemitism in the UK, showing a record high of 892 antisemitic incidents in the first six months of 2019. This is 10 percent higher than the 810 incidents recorded from January to June 2018, which was itself a record. The CST’s total figure for 2018 of 1,688 incidents was also an annual record. The figures for February and March 2019 made them the joint-fourth and sixth worst months for antisemitic incidents since CST records began in 1984. When antisemitism is worse than ever before, it raises the question of how meaningful deflecting or disarming it can really be.

“Because antisemitism has become much more of an issue, and has been increasing in recent years,” says Rich, “perhaps that’s a reason why people are now looking again at the Y-word and thinking it is not okay to just give it a free pass.”

Kick It Out are just as clear. “We have clarified our policy on antisemitism and the use of the y-word on a number of occasions – we believe it has no place in football regardless of context, which we reiterated in the release of an antisemitism film and stewards training resource last year,” said a spokesperson. “As always, we support Tottenham Hotspur’s decision to open up a consultation for their fans and will continue to liaise with the club, as well as Jewish community organisations, to find a productive way of taking these conversations forward.”

In this view, the intent is irrelevant. The word is wrong and should never be used by anyone. In simple terms, this is not a word that we want to be in circulation. And if we want to live in a world where no one says it, then people just need to stop using it.

What if the best way to disarm antisemites is not to use the word but to stop using it?

There is an argument that even Spurs fans using it in their own way can give cover to antisemites at other clubs. Chelsea have found in their own antisemitism education campaign that some of their fans use the word because they associate it with Tottenham, not because of its antisemitic roots. There have been high-profile interventions by Jewish Chelsea fans, such as David Baddiel, who have campaigned against the use of the word. For Pollard, the connection between the two things is not so clear. “The entire argument is about Spurs fans being held responsible for the racism of other fans,” he says. “It is up to Chelsea and other clubs to sort out their own problems.”

Action Against Discrimination and its chairman Jonathan Metliss have taken a strong stance on the issue, calling on a ban to help the fight against antisemitism. “AAD strongly believes that these terms are abusive and offensive to the Jewish community and to Jewish people generally, and arguably a criminal offence as being an abusive term for a Jew,” said a statement. “It provokes and encourages antisemitic chanting from opposing supporters both at Tottenham and at other grounds around the country, particularly at Chelsea and West Ham, along with unacceptable antisemitic behaviour and statements on the internet. Antisemitism is racism.”

The link between Spurs fans’ usage and other fans’ usage is one of the many contested points of this debate. “There is not antisemitism because Tottenham fans call themselves ‘Yid Army’,” says Simon Johnson of the Jewish Leadership Council. “But it is my view that you will never eliminate antisemitism within football whilst Tottenham fans continue to call themselves the ‘Yid Army’. It is not part of the cause, and it would be unfair for anybody to say that it was. But there is no question that it would have to be part of the solution.”

Traditionally Tottenham have defended their fans’ right to use the words as a “badge of honour”, but even if the club’s position were to change it is difficult to see how it can be stopped.

The modern prevalence of the chant owes something to the last clumsy attempt to stamp it out six years ago. In September 2013 the Football Association decided that the word was “inappropriate in a football setting” and “could amount to a criminal offence”. Within weeks three Spurs fans had been arrested for using it and were charged with racially-aggravated public order offences. But in March 2014 the Crown Prosecution Service decided there was “insufficient evidence” to convict because of the context in which the words were used. This futile crackdown catalysed a new terrace chant: “They tried to stop us and look what it did, the thing I love most is being a Yid.”

Those failed prosecutions have hung over the issue ever since, and for some fans, the transgressive or improper nature of the word makes it more attractive. Especially as pushing boundaries of acceptable behaviour and inverting the meaning of words have always been part of being an English football fan. For some Spurs fans, this is part of their identity that can never be commoditised and sold back to them by the club. It will not be put on official mugs or hoodies sold in the club shop.

It is hard to imagine Spurs fans ever being convinced by anyone else to give these words up. Football fans have a tribal, defensive nature and do not like being lectured. Prosecutions have failed in the past and more would be counter-productive. Having stewards root out offenders at games would be totally impractical. Only a thoughtful, gradual, fan-led cultural change programme could ever make a difference, bringing fans with it rather than pushing them away.

“We’ve always said change on this issue has to come from within,” says Rich. “From within the club, from within Tottenham fans moving on from using that word. It cannot be enforced from the outside. So if this consultation is a step on that road, that can be a good thing.”
It's a complicated issue, for sure.

As a non-Jewish Tottenham fan, I don't refer to myself that way, or sing any songs that contain the word simply (much like I don't drop the N word singing along to rap, etc)

I don't have an issue with others using it though, and I can't imagine the word being completely removed from Tottenham fans as long as the Jewish identity of the club and it's supporters remains.

Also, fuck Chelsea. It's not Spurs fault their fans sing anti-Semitic songs. It's the fault of their shit bag fans.
 
when it comes to the meaning of words, context and intent are essential

I worked for a year for KYW News Radio in Philadelphia. In the newsroom, where the off the air the atmosphere was highly entertaining, with constant jabbing and jabbering back and forth, there were a number of Jewish colleagues, who were regulalry collectively and lightheartedly referred to as "yids". No one ever took offense. It was laughed off appropriately as a joke, which it was.
 
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