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Basham, Surratt, Hartman and Kern return

In most circumstances, it's also a douche move for a coach to leave his program and his players for another school at the same level (for WF that's BCS/Power V). Despite opportunities to do so, WF has not had a football or basketball coach leave the head job here to become a head coach at another college in almost 50 years -- Cal Stoll leaving WF for Minnesota in 1971 (you can argue that GDO left WF for S. Carolina, but he only left WF after Wellman refused to extend him; so when Odom left WF it was more of a mutual decision than a coach leaving WF without cause; if you want to count GDO, that's one coach in 50 years that has left WF for another college opening). So, despite opportunities to do so, WF coaches don't typically leave the school to take a head job at another job. If they did, would also think that's its lame and fair to criticize them for being a d-bag.
 
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People leave for jobs they consider better for a myriad of reasons. Pay is one of them (that's assuming you don't think UGA/SEC don't give benefits greater than at Wake). As to "responsibilities", the reality is UGA could play for the NC next year and Wake has no shot. Just reality.

RE: the coach- that might work in a NC courtroom but not here. It's not about year. It's about an entire future that he thinks will be better.

As is the case in many "discussions" here (I'm not calling you out personally), too many people are making this totally personal and a character attack on Jamie. He might be right. He might be wrong, but the attacks are childish, boorish, classless and outrageous.

My bad, that's the go to move for many here.

How many times are you going to repeat this? I think you established how you feel about it 10 days ago.
 
How many times are you going to repeat this? I think you established how you feel about it 10 days ago.

God, if only someone had a Sokolove like collection of your CMM bullshit, now would be the perfect time.
 
People leave for jobs they consider better for a myriad of reasons. Pay is one of them (that's assuming you don't think UGA/SEC don't give benefits greater than at Wake). As to "responsibilities", the reality is UGA could play for the NC next year and Wake has no shot. Just reality.

RE: the coach- that might work in a NC courtroom but not here. It's not about year. It's about an entire future that he thinks will be better.

As is the case in many "discussions" here (I'm not calling you out personally), too many people are making this totally personal and a character attack on Jamie. He might be right. He might be wrong, but the attacks are childish, boorish, classless and outrageous.

My bad, that's the go to move for many here.

They lose their entire OL and their OL coach from an already bad offense. They have virtually no chance of winning the SEC, let alone a national championship. We'll see how good Jamie is though, because if he plays like he did in his last few games at Wake, UGA will finish 3rd or 4th in the SEC LEast.
 
I think this is a real d-bag move by Jaime. Especially if he didn't tell the staff before the bowl game. He certainly can do whatever he wants, but he and I clearly do not share the same values.

Wait, wait, wait. You are clearly wading into "us" vs. "them" territory which is also leveraged by racists and nationalists. Just chill out because I have to assume you are neither of those things. You have every right to be annoyed or even castigate Newman as being disloyal. I happen to disagree with you, but that's 'Merica, and you have that right. But we collectively know nothing of the conversations Newman had privately with Clawson and the Wake staff. We have no idea whether the staff was aware of this as a possibility or if they were floored by it. So to challenge Newman's values is ... certainly going down the wrong path, one our delightful internet has funneled us into over the last decade plus. You are with us or against us. Enemy or friend. Again, just chill out.

Now, if you happen to be a fly and spent the better part of the last six months on the wall of either Newman's dorm room or Clawson's office, then I apologize, but Clawson very well might have known that Newman was contemplating this. We simply don't know.

History would lead me to believe that had Clawson known that Newman was definitely going to do a grad year to get pro style training, he most likely would not have played him in the bowl, but he and Clawson might have had preliminary conversations that Newman knew he was considering it as a possibility. If memory serves, Newman was NOT honored at our last home game on the assumption he might be entering into the draft or transferring, but I didn't dig into old posts.

What does seem realistic is that Clawson would have conversations with both Newman and Hartman in regards to 2020 for obvious reasons - the desire to keep both. I think he's also a truthful and honest person, so Newman might not have liked hearing that he was going to share snaps with Hartman in 2020 or have to battle again in the Fall just as he has the last two years. That seems rational, but it is certainly not fact. I can't see a way to play 2020 without giving Hartman meaningful series the way we did with Hinton and Wolford early in their careers. For reasons that seem obvious - the desire to keep both of them.

Also, I have yet to read a single post or hear a single rumor or a story about a player telling someone who came and posted it here that Newman was anything but a solid teammate and good leader. In fact, judging by the twitterverse, his teammates are genuinely happy for him. Now, Hartman may prove to be an exceptional teammate and an exceptional leader, but everything that is available to read on Newman - he essentially has one questionable quote from after the Virginia Tech game. And Conor has expressed on here that he was a joy to interview (relatively) throughout his time covering Wake (so that is since Newman was a sophomore??), until about November 2019 when Newman became somewhat short/distant. That is all the info we have. If you know of more, please share. He's god fearing judging from his tweets. Clawson is not, judging from his press conferences. He simply never thanks or blames Jesus for wins and losses.

But I honestly don't want to live in a universe where Newman grad transferring over to Georgia to position himself potentially for a better NFL future results in him being a traitor and pariah to Wake Forest. Plus, it's quite silly since his teammates with direct interaction with him and whom were way more dependent on him (than hopefully you are), seem to be quite happy for him. If Jesus tweeted, I think he'd be happy for him too.
 
Wait, wait, wait. You are clearly wading into "us" vs. "them" territory which is also leveraged by racists and nationalists. Just chill out because I have to assume you are neither of those things. You have every right to be annoyed or even castigate Newman as being disloyal. I happen to disagree with you, but that's 'Merica, and you have that right. But we collectively know nothing of the conversations Newman had privately with Clawson and the Wake staff. We have no idea whether the staff was aware of this as a possibility or if they were floored by it. So to challenge Newman's values is ... certainly going down the wrong path, one our delightful internet has funneled us into over the last decade plus. You are with us or against us. Enemy or friend. Again, just chill out.

Now, if you happen to be a fly and spent the better part of the last six months on the wall of either Newman's dorm room or Clawson's office, then I apologize, but Clawson very well might have known that Newman was contemplating this. We simply don't know.

History would lead me to believe that had Clawson known that Newman was definitely going to do a grad year to get pro style training, he most likely would not have played him in the bowl, but he and Clawson might have had preliminary conversations that Newman knew he was considering it as a possibility. If memory serves, Newman was NOT honored at our last home game on the assumption he might be entering into the draft or transferring, but I didn't dig into old posts.

What does seem realistic is that Clawson would have conversations with both Newman and Hartman in regards to 2020 for obvious reasons - the desire to keep both. I think he's also a truthful and honest person, so Newman might not have liked hearing that he was going to share snaps with Hartman in 2020 or have to battle again in the Fall just as he has the last two years. That seems rational, but it is certainly not fact. I can't see a way to play 2020 without giving Hartman meaningful series the way we did with Hinton and Wolford early in their careers. For reasons that seem obvious - the desire to keep both of them.

Also, I have yet to read a single post or hear a single rumor or a story about a player telling someone who came and posted it here that Newman was anything but a solid teammate and good leader. In fact, judging by the twitterverse, his teammates are genuinely happy for him. Now, Hartman may prove to be an exceptional teammate and an exceptional leader, but everything that is available to read on Newman - he essentially has one questionable quote from after the Virginia Tech game. And Conor has expressed on here that he was a joy to interview (relatively) throughout his time covering Wake (so that is since Newman was a sophomore??), until about November 2019 when Newman became somewhat short/distant. That is all the info we have. If you know of more, please share. He's god fearing judging from his tweets. Clawson is not, judging from his press conferences. He simply never thanks or blames Jesus for wins and losses.

But I honestly don't want to live in a universe where Newman grad transferring over to Georgia to position himself potentially for a better NFL future results in him being a traitor and pariah to Wake Forest. Plus, it's quite silly since his teammates with direct interaction with him and whom were way more dependent on him (than hopefully you are), seem to be quite happy for him. If Jesus tweeted, I think he'd be happy for him too.

Just to clarify one thing. There was plenty of talk about him being content with being QB3 before he jumped in for an injured Hartman last year.
 
Racist, nationalist? That feels like a reach. I think Jaime should be loyal to Wake. Jaime does not. That is fine. We have differing values in that regard. That does not make me right or him wrong.

In any event, as I said: "Especially if he didn't tell the staff[.]" The word "if" is right there.
 
Racist, nationalist? That feels like a reach. I think Jaime should be loyal to Wake. Jaime does not. That is fine. We have differing values in that regard. That does not make me right or him wrong.

In any event, as I said: "Especially if he didn't tell the staff[.]" The word "if" is right there.

Yeah that was quite the ridiculous accusation.
 
If you guys take a breath and read the whole think, I said it is the same language that racists and nationalists use - "they don't have my values." In the very next sentence I state that I imagine Balls is not racist or a nationalist. You can be a nationalist without being white btw. My point is that I strongly advise against using that kind of language. It's coded, whether you choose to acknowledge that or not. It is interpreted that way. I don't think that is what Balls meant. On top of that, it is stupid thinking IMO. You can be annoyed with Newman without having to turn him into the enemy or "other" as Balls did.
 
Just to clarify one thing. There was plenty of talk about him being content with being QB3 before he jumped in for an injured Hartman last year.

Content? No. Clawson has said the lights didn't go off in his head until Hartman came in gunning in January and he was fighting for QB2. Then, Hinton got suspended. That didn't mean that Newman was content, it meant he wasn't doing all the thing he needed to do in practice and in film study that he would need to do to become QB1. He was somewhere between knothead and not figuring things out yet.
 
Also, it’s spelled raciost.

Not sure I follow... is this you attempting to be clever?

Here is your last line:

He certainly can do whatever he wants, but he and I clearly do not share the same values.

How should one interpret that? Define loyalty to you. Am I to assume that if you work for Ford motor company as a middle manager for $100,000 job and your desire is to work for BMW in Germany doing X, that if Nissan came along and offered you a job for $101,000 and you felt that particular job, even though it is also middle mgmt, gave you an easier pathway to a job at BMW IN Germanmy, you'd turn down the Nissan job offer because Ford gave you your first big opportunity and your loyalty to Ford is more important than the dream job at BMW?
 
I think we're fine with Hartman; but, we are very thin with only Kern having played any minutes in college. In the long term, I think Newman's transfer could be a positive for us. Maybe the coaches will see that we might need to upgrade the offense so that it meets the needs of qb's with pro potential and doesn't limit us from recruiting them. Also, I think that while the other guys will publicly support Jamie's decision, I can't help but think they feel a little slighted. Hopefully, this will motivate them to reach another level.

A good thing is Newman leaving now. This will give Kern a lot of 2nd team reps in practice. It will also allow him to enter games in mop up duty. Unless there is a major Hartman injury early on Kern should be ready to step in as needed. Maybe not "bring a team back from behind" ready but certainly a "hold onto a lead" ready.
 
Didn't you think he was an NFL caliber qb while he was here? I'm confused.

I don't remember ever saying he was NFL caliber, but if I did it would have had to have been before we lost Washington and Surratt. I think we were all fooled by how great those two (and Hinton too honestly) were making Jamie look the first half of the season. His performances to close the year were absolutely not NFL caliber, they were closer to NAIA caliber.

At UGA, Newman will have a vastly less experienced and unproven O-Line compared to the one he had at Wake this season. He will have one proven target at WR in Pickens, who is damn good, but he isn't Surratt good. Outside of Pickens there are nothing but question marks at WR with mostly true freshmen and the second best option behind Pickens (Demitris Robertson) coming off an ACL tear in the Sugar Bowl. His best option at TE will be a VERY mediocre grad transfer from FSU. Add the fact that they draw Auburn and @BAMA (week 3) and he's looking at some rough afternoons ahead of him next fall.

One bright spot will be playing in the SEC East, but South Carolina added Mike Bobo and return alot of talent, Tennessee should take a BIG step next year after finishing this season on a 6 game winning streak, Florida is primed to take the leap back to dominance next year, Kentucky has another highly rated class to compliment a very deep and physical team, Vandy and Mason are in a win or GTFO mode next season and could be improved and dangerous, and Mizzou could surprise if Drinkwitz can deliver what he promised them.

He does luck out in the non conference slate with depleted UVA week one in Atlanta, ULM at home, ETSU at home, and a still reprogramming Georgia Tech at home. They don't leave north Georgia for a single non conference game and only leave the eastern time zone once all season when they travel to Mizzou.

Auburn, Florida, and Alabama are going to run riot against that O-Line. South Carolina, Tennessee, and Kentucky can easily do the same if the Dawgs offense is as weak as it looks right now. The rest of the schedule is probably weak enough for Newman to put some decent numbers up IF the offense solves all of the questions. That's a big IF.
 
Am I to assume that if you work for Ford motor company as a middle manager for $100,000 job and your desire is to work for BMW in Germany doing X, that if Nissan came along and offered you a job for $101,000 and you felt that particular job, even though it is also middle mgmt, gave you an easier pathway to a job at BMW IN Germanmy, you'd turn down the Nissan job offer because Ford gave you your first big opportunity and your loyalty to Ford is more important than the dream job at BMW?

I don't love this analogy but let's explore it. In whose opinion is a season at UGA better than a season at WF in terms of preparing Jamie for the NFL?
 
I don't love this analogy but let's explore it. In whose opinion is a season at UGA better than a season at WF in terms of preparing Jamie for the NFL?

I'd be guessing the people whom Jamie's family talked to from the NFL, agents and other experts.
 
If you guys take a breath and read the whole think, I said it is the same language that racists and nationalists use - "they don't have my values." In the very next sentence I state that I imagine Balls is not racist or a nationalist. You can be a nationalist without being white btw. My point is that I strongly advise against using that kind of language. It's coded, whether you choose to acknowledge that or not. It is interpreted that way. I don't think that is what Balls meant. On top of that, it is stupid thinking IMO. You can be annoyed with Newman without having to turn him into the enemy or "other" as Balls did.

I am so impressed with people that are able to read coded language that was not intended. I think that says more about the reader than the poster.
 
Mark Richt has said that Jamie will be the best QB in the SEC next season. He based that on watching him all season at Wake. High praise from a former SEC coach.

BTW, has Clawson made any public statement about this situation?
 
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