• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Kobe Bryant, Daughter Gigi and 7 Others Dead in Helicopter Crash

perhaps the discussion of Kobe Bryant -- both positive and negative -- on a Wake Forest message board doesn't have much real life impact
 
tigerswood said:
Those marine fog layers are seemingly so random at times. Sometimes it can be bright and sunny at one location, but near zero visibility 2 miles down the road. And they can come and go very quickly. I'm guessing something along those lines is what happened here. Probably fine at takeoff, became really bad, pilot got disoriented, and tragedy happened.

This is probably a dumb question from someone who has never flown in a helicopter before, but could the pilot have just flown straight up and above the marine layer? They're typically very close to the ground, and I'm pretty sure choppers have no issue flying at 5,000-10,000 feet or so.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is what I was thinking. I've never flown a helicopter either, but I would think if you can't see in thick fog the options would be either to set it down at the earliest opportunity or go straight up to try to get over it. Not fly forward at 185mph without being able to see, especially with the mountainous terrain out there.
 
air-jordan-7-why-drive-when-fly-tee-01-570x427.jpg

air-jordan-7-why-drive-when-fly-tee-02-570x427.jpg
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Yeah, it sounds like they were flying in conditions they really shouldn't have been. It's shame, I mean the pilot could've just sat the thing down somewhere instead of trying to continue on since it was a helicopther. Definitely just sad
Click to expand...

Something else about that area is it's not just a line of hills or low mountains as you'd find in most ranges. It's more of a bowl. Depending on where you are, you could be virtually surrounded by hills of different heights on almost all sides. Normally, you could have miles and miles and miles of visibility, but when the marine layer or these fog episodes happen, you might not be able to see a hundred feet. Hell, I've been in fog on PCH near Kobe's house where I had to pull off, because I couldn't see twenty feet in front of my car.

About the same distance from John Wayne to Calabasas is from Calabasas to what is called the Grapevine on I-5. It seems like almost every year there is a 25 or 50 or even 100+ car accident due to the fog.
 
Last edited:
RJKarl said:
Something else about that area is it's not just a line of hills or low mountains as you'd find in most ranges. It's more of a bowl. Depending on where you are, you could be virtually surrounded by hills of different heights on almost all sides. Normally, you could have miles and miles and miles of visibility, but when the marine layer or these fog episodes happen, you might not be able to see a hundred feet. Hell, I've been in fog on PCH near Kobe's house where I had to pull off, because I couldn't see twenty feet in front of my car.

About the same distance from John Wayne to Calabasas is from Calabasas to what is called the Grapevine on I-5. It seems like almost every year there is a 25 or 50 or even 100+ car accident due to the fog.
Click to expand...

How high are the mountains? A couple thousand feet? It's been a while since I've been out there, but it seems like it would be easy to fly straight up/above them and look for an area with no fog to land.
 
tigerswood said:
This is probably a dumb question from someone who has never flown in a helicopter before, but could the pilot have just flown straight up and above the marine layer? They're typically very close to the ground, and I'm pretty sure choppers have no issue flying at 5,000-10,000 feet or so.
Click to expand...

Guessing (based on no experience) that they were only cleared for a specific flight altitude window?
 
From the description (circling landmarks and following certain highways), it seems like the pilot was flying VFR (visual flight rules) and got stuck in heavy fog. Without IFR (Instrument flight rules) training, he/she would be totally lost when he could no longer see the landmarks on the ground. He should have saved them all by getting above the fog and flying over it to a safe landing spot. But doing so would mean losing sight of the ground and the landmarks he was using to navigate, so there is not telling how far off track he would wind up - and they would likely miss the game.

Sounds like the old saying - there is no such thing as old, bold pilots.
 
I was in a helicopter in October that was flying at 13k+ feet (circling around Mt. Etna). But I don't know anything about flight altitude windows.
 
91deac said:
From the description (circling landmarks and following certain highways), it seems like the pilot was flying VFR (visual flight rules) and got stuck in heavy fog. Without IFR (Instrument flight rules) training, he/she would be totally lost when he could no longer see the landmarks on the ground. He should have saved them all by getting above the fog and flying over it to a safe landing spot. But doing so would mean losing sight of the ground and the landmarks he was using to navigate, so there is not telling how far off track he would wind up - and they would likely miss the game.

Sounds like the old saying - there is no such thing as old, bold pilots.
Click to expand...

was this a buddy of Kobe's or something? what kind of pilot flying a helicopter that can hold 9 people for famous people isn't IFR rated?
 
I agree - the report I read said that Kobe used a professional flight service company, so they would be the ones supplying the pilots. It is hard to believe they wouldn't be IFR certified, but they clearly seemed to be flying VFR - circling the zoo at 875 ft several times, waiting for things to clear up, then flying down the 118 / 101 freeways. The only reason to be that low would be to see the ground in foggy conditions.
 
you'd think he'd radio ATC that he was socked in as a VFR rated guy and ask permission to climb above the marine layer or ask how high it is, at least.

or maybe he sort of an old salt and was confident the layer would blow through as quickly as it came? i know some experienced pilots that have a 'old sea captain' quality about them when it comes to weather, though none of them would ever chance something like departing in zero-zero conditions without an IFR plan.
 
I read a report that the pilot was experienced and actually a trainer of other helicopter pilots and that he was definitely IFR rated. I assume he was flying VFR because of the length of the trip. I’m just surprised that he had to circle for some time due to the weather and didn’t bail on the trip at that time or at the very least land and switch to IFR with flight following. As a private pilot I’ve experienced about one scary weather moment and that was my last one.
 
TownieDeac said:
To some of you, 500 words, threats of physical violence, and a picture of Brett Kavanaugh may seem out of place. But to me,,,this is Mamba Mentality.
Click to expand...

At least this morning's post was far less Aaron Hernandez-y and not talking about disrespect.
How many concussions have you had, netflix?
No clue why Kavanaugh would get brought up.
 
We'll probably also learn, from the accident investigation, that the aircraft pilot did not receive a comprehensive weather briefing immediately prior to the commencement of this flight. Understand that the helicopter belonged to Kobe. Was he piloting the aircraft? If so, was he instrument rated? Lots of questions about this accident! I'm reminded, here, of John Kennedy's accident, many years ago, when he set out, late in the afternoon, for Martha's Vineyard, from New Jersey, and flew his plane into the Ocean after becoming disoriented after darkness. He had no instrument training.
 
Robert M. Pirsig said:
Guessing (based on no experience) that they were only cleared for a specific flight altitude window?
Click to expand...

This seems reasonable - with multiple commercial airports in the area, helicopters might be restricted to lower altitudes to not interfere with airplane flight paths.

Here in DC, most helicopters fly very low because there are planes taking off from DCA all the time.
 
From the LiveATC.net forums:

He also asked SOCAL for flight following but was denied as he was too low for that. Ceilings were reported at OVC1300' on NOAA history. The SF valley floor is only 800 to 1000'. He probably went in to IMC when he met the rising terrain westbound on 101, attempted a 180 out while in the soup and hit. We read reports on these outcomes in mountain passes before, eg. Donner pass, Grapevine, the Rockies, etc. where scud running the highway leads to VFR into IMC, then...your boxed in. We'll see in a year when the report comes out, RIP.
Click to expand...
 
tigerswood said:
How high are the mountains? A couple thousand feet? It's been a while since I've been out there, but it seems like it would be easy to fly straight up/above them and look for an area with no fog to land.
Click to expand...

I would guess they go from 1000-2200'. But depending where you are, it could be a bowl. It's not like you know that a hill is on one side and clear sailing on the other.
 
These patches of fog can appear out of nowhere and disappear just as quickly.

A perfect example happened to me last Friday. The place I do shredding of paper is about a quarter mile from the beach. I was one light inland from there and it was sunny. Behind the office is a storage facility. When I got there, I couldn't even see the end of the row of storage lockers that were about a 50-100 yards away.

On one side of the street was clear, twenty yards away, you could barely see 10-20'. That was on the ground. I wouldn't be surprised if was thicker higher up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top