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Covid-19 - Treatments & Vaccines

is brad mentally frail, insecure, or just a terrible person? he's proof that it's easy to cover up being an unlikeable asshole if you're dim-witted to begin with.

none really, he's just a GOP homer. He can't stand that his boy Ron DeSantis and a large portion of the GOP have been so dramatically wrong and terrible at dealing with this pandemic.

He and the rest of them are so afraid of fracturing the party and having to lose a few rounds that they have allowed the deplorable mind-numbingly stupid end of the party drive the bus and they have to explain it away on every issue.
 
Yeah. The main reason people know about it is some study, right?

Good thread here about over 400 years of vaccines, vaccine mandates, anti-vax including pro-vaccine Founding Fathers.

It is getting harder and harder to believe and hear some of the shit that is coming out of parents these days. I've taught school early in my career. Got out because I was tired of parents telling me how I should teach and correct (if necessary) their children so they could learn. I've served on School Boards in small districts <1000 students and in huge Districts with >5000 students. I've also raised 3 children.
I can't tell you the high % of parents who have no clue on the way to raise, parent or teach their children. Parents who blindly support their children, "right never wrong" attitude or fight for "student rights" often totally misguided. And discipline? Often, totally non existent.
Now I would never suggest that parents do not the right to raise their children as they see fit. But if an elected School Board pass a policy, whatever it may be you can disagree, protest, etc. Even remove your child from the class, District, etc. if you'd like. But like it or not, they and the Superintendent are the final word. Want a policy changed, vote out the Board Member(s).
Board Members are parents who volunteer their time, typically have or had children and do the best they can. Often I have argued with, disagreed with and even thought some were incompetent. But I respected their views.
Its tough being a parent today, I get it. But fighting over a mask mandate that most kids don't care about and is a sound policy considering this pandemic to protect our children is one of the more assine efforts I have seen in all my years in the educational environment.
 
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Good post, Pop. The anti-mask stuff is part of a long line of "parents know best" crap that is neutering good education innovation and practice.
 
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...er-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

Looks like previously having Covid is 13 times more effective at preventing infection than the vaccine.

I am back to licking doorknobs. The pandemic is over for me, sucks to suck losers.

This would be great, if it holds up. But India was arguing in January that they were protected because of high natural immunity from prior infection, and then they got crushed in April-May https://theprint.in/opinion/majorit...ntire-population-can-cause-great-harm/582174/

Manaus Brazil estimated that 76% of their population had natural immunity, but then they got crushed in January https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(21)00183-5/fulltext

Not to mention that purposely getting infected with a virus that has killed millions worldwide is not a winning strategy...
 
Angus, why don't you want kids to wear masks in schools? They don't mind.

no they don't.

both of my kids have no problems wearing a mask. for one we thought it was going to be an issue but she understands why she has to and so she does it without bitching and whining like the dumbass brad
 
no they don't.

both of my kids have no problems wearing a mask. for one we thought it was going to be an issue but she understands why she has to and so she does it without bitching and whining like the dumbass brad

It's easier to get my kids (10, 8, 4) to wear a mask all day than it is to put shoes on in the morning.
 
NYT newsletter from today suggests immunity is not really waning and wonders whether boosters are needed, especially as soon as is being planned

I have seen Twitter traffic that the Isreali data suggesting waning immunity is more of a function of Simpson's Paradox than a true issue, echoed in the NYT piece excerpted below.

Also there is the troubling issue that Pfizer et al will make a shit ton of money if everyone gets a third (fourth, fifth) shot

The booster-industrial complex

Late last month, researchers in Israel released some alarming new Covid-19 data. The data showed that many Israelis who had been among the first to receive the vaccine were nonetheless catching the Covid virus. Israelis who had been vaccinated later were not getting infected as often.
The study led to headlines around the world about waning immunity — the idea that vaccines lose their effectiveness over time. In the U.S., the Israeli study accelerated a debate about vaccine booster shots and played a role in the Biden administration’s recent recommendation that all Americans receive a booster shot eight months after their second dose.

But the real story about waning immunity is more complex than the initial headlines suggested. Some scientists believe that the Israeli data was misleading and that U.S. policy on booster shots has gotten ahead of the facts. The evidence for waning immunity is murky, these scientists say, and booster shots may not have a big effect.
After returning from an August break last week, I have spent time reaching out to scientists to ask for their help in understanding the current, confusing stage of the pandemic. How worried should vaccinated people be about the Delta variant? How much risk do children face? Which parts of the Covid story are being overhyped, and which deserve more attention?

I will be trying to answer these questions in the coming weeks. (I’d also like to know what questions you want answered; submit them here.)

One of the main messages I’m hearing from the experts is that conventional wisdom about waning immunity is problematic. Yes, the immunity from the Covid vaccines will wane at some point. But it may not yet have waned in a meaningful way.

“There’s a big difference between needing another shot every six months versus every five years,” Dr. David Dowdy, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins University, told me. “So far, looking at the data we have, I’m not seeing much evidence that we’ve reached that point yet.”
Simpson strikes again

At first glance, the Israeli data seems straightforward: People who had been vaccinated in the winter were more likely to contract the virus this summer than people who had been vaccinated in the spring.
Yet it would truly be proof of waning immunity only if the two groups — the winter and spring vaccine recipients — were otherwise similar to each other. If not, the other differences between them might be the real reason for the gap in the Covid rates.

As it turns out, the two groups were different. The first Israelis to have received the vaccine tended to be more affluent and educated. By coincidence, these same groups later were among the first exposed to the Delta variant, perhaps because they were more likely to travel. Their higher infection rate may have stemmed from the new risks they were taking, not any change in their vaccine protection.
Statisticians have a name for this possibility — when topline statistics point to a false conclusion that disappears when you examine subgroups. It’s called Simpson’s Paradox.


This paradox may also explain some of the U.S. data that the C.D.C. has cited to justify booster shots. Many Americans began to resume more indoor activities this spring. That more were getting Covid may reflect their newfound Covid exposure (as well as the arrival of Delta), rather than any waning of immunity over time.
‘Where is it?’

Sure enough, other data supports the notion that vaccine immunity is not waning much.
The ratio of positive Covid tests among older adults and children, for example, does not seem to be changing, Dowdy notes. If waning immunity were a major problem, we should expect to see a faster rise in Covid cases among older people (who were among the first to receive shots). And even the Israeli analysis showed that the vaccines continued to prevent serious Covid illness at essentially the same rate as before.

“If there’s data proving the need for boosters, where is it?” Zeynep Tufekci, the sociologist and Times columnist, has written.

Part of the problem is that the waning-immunity story line is irresistible to many people. The vaccine makers — Pfizer, Moderna and others — have an incentive to promote it, because booster shots will bring them big profits. The C.D.C. and F.D.A., for their part, have a history of extreme caution, even when it harms public health. We in the media tend to suffer from bad-news bias. And many Americans are so understandably frightened by Covid that they pay more attention to alarming signs than reassuring ones.

The bottom line
Here’s my best attempt to give you an objective summary of the evidence, free from alarmism — and acknowledging uncertainty:

Immunity does probably wane modestly within the first year of receiving a shot. For this reason, booster shots make sense for vulnerable people, many experts believe. As Dr. Céline Gounder of Bellevue Hospital Center told my colleague Apoorva Mandavilli, the C.D.C.’s data “support giving additional doses of vaccine to highly immunocompromised persons and nursing home residents, not to the general public.”
The current booster shots may do little good for most people. The vaccines continue to provide excellent protection against illness (as opposed to merely a positive Covid test). People will eventually need boosters, but it may make more sense to wait for one specifically designed to combat a variant. “We don’t know whether a non-Delta booster would improve protection against Delta,” Dr. Aaron Richterman of the University of Pennsylvania told me.

A national policy of frequent booster shots has significant costs, financially and otherwise. Among other things, the exaggerated discussion of waning immunity contributes to vaccine skepticism.
While Americans are focusing on booster shots, other policies may do much more to beat back Covid, including more vaccine mandates in the U.S.; a more rapid push to vaccinate the world (and prevent other variants from taking root); and an accelerated F.D.A. study of vaccines for children.

As always, we should be open to changing our minds as we get new evidence. As Richterman puts it, “We have time to gather the appropriate evidence before rushing into boosters.”
 
It's easier to get my kids (10, 8, 4) to wear a mask all day than it is to put shoes on in the morning.

yeah my 6yo sometimes forgets its on and 10 min after I bring him home I look over and he's still got in on while he's playing.

Republican kids are so fucking soft and marshmallowy, like their parents. ;)
 

The real story here is really less that the Judge ordered it. The family of the sick guy found a doctor in Dayton to prescribe the medication for him but the hospital where the sick guy is being cared for is refusing to administer it. So I'm not sure of the medical authority hierarchy when you have a doctor prescribing a medicine but a hospital refusing it.

The bigger story should be that the sick guy refused to get the vaccine months ago, then got Covid, is now on a ventilator, and rather than just get the vaccine upfront, his family is seeking another stupid GOP crowd-sourced medicine.
 
This would be great, if it holds up. But India was arguing in January that they were protected because of high natural immunity from prior infection, and then they got crushed in April-May https://theprint.in/opinion/majorit...ntire-population-can-cause-great-harm/582174/

Manaus Brazil estimated that 76% of their population had natural immunity, but then they got crushed in January https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(21)00183-5/fulltext

Not to mention that purposely getting infected with a virus that has killed millions worldwide is not a winning strategy...

As an aside, many in India used HCQ last summer, and then around August 2020 they switched to ivermectin. For several months India had very low COVID case and death rates, and the internet crazies claimed it was because of ivermectin. That's how a lot of the ivermectin talk started. Of course, in April-May of 2021 India got absolutely crushed by COVID (4000+ deaths daily), despite widespread ivermectin use. The ivermectin crowd doesn't mention this.
 
The real story here is really less that the Judge ordered it. The family of the sick guy found a doctor in Dayton to prescribe the medication for him but the hospital where the sick guy is being cared for is refusing to administer it. So I'm not sure of the medical authority hierarchy when you have a doctor prescribing a medicine but a hospital refusing it.

The bigger story should be that the sick guy refused to get the vaccine months ago, then got Covid, is now on a ventilator, and rather than just get the vaccine upfront, his family is seeking another stupid GOP crowd-sourced medicine.

I assume the physician in Dayton does not have admitting rights at that hospital, so he/she typically would not control the meds given to the patient on a daily (or hourly) basis.
 
Covid-19 - Treatments &amp; Vaccines

yeah my 6yo sometimes forgets its on and 10 min after I bring him home I look over and he's still got in on while he's playing.

Republican kids are so fucking soft and marshmallowy, like their parents. ;)

Same. It’s just not a big deal at all. We pick up one of the neighbor kids and she stays with us for a few hours twice a week and she just wears the mask the whole time without thinking about it even when she’s by herself just doing homework.

Republicans have to teach their kids to be snowflakes.
 
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