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Chat Thread 2021: huge historic day today ! you are living history congrats !

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Shia LaBaouf is alleged to have physically and mentally abused his former girlfriends. I assume he's probably guilty of the allegations. Many people responding to these allegations are saying that Shia shouldn't be able to work or act in film again. Where does that logic come from? Isn't it our legal and justice systems roll to serve justice and "punish" abusers like him? After he serves whatever sentence and is charged whatever restitution, why shouldn't he be allowed to work in his chosen profession? Currently a progressive movement in our society is to "ban the box", such that former convicts are not forced to admit their criminal history on a job application. Yet at the same time as our anti-carceral movement, we demand that Arbys fire high schoolers who post racist things on facebook. It all seems rather arbitrary and random. Who decides which jobs are acceptable for criminals and abusers, and which aren't, and if we aren't making that decision democratically, isn't is just mob rule?
 
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Paul Hogan said:
He was pretty good in that Transformers movie. Seems ridiculous not to deprive moviegoers of his skill just to make a point.
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I understand the socially punitive, retributive desire. I don't want bad people and abusers to be rich and famous either. I just don't believe that social retribution can be applied consistently or even logically. Shia could never act again and still probably be rich and happy for the rest of his life. He could also become very successful in any number of other endeavors, where his identity isn't prominent. I can agree with the punitive sentiment, I just can't follow the logic of the punishment.
 
All the sudden Peanut butter Falcon isn't as wholesome as it once was.
 
I never thought of myself a very traditional guy but I guess I am naming my kids, John, Katherine and Richard.
With an Italian last name having 6 letters, 4 that are vowels, I was just trying to compensate a bit.

Now my son has 3 children, my Grandchildren; Alexander, Julian and soon, Leila.

I just don't get it.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
All the sudden Peanut butter Falcon isn't as wholesome as it once was.
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I'm not speaking to the quality of Peanut Butter Falcon, but much of the worlds most cherished artwork was created by drunks, wife beaters, anti-semites, so...there is an undeniable extent to which art transcends artist. Rosemary's Baby is one of the best horror films of all time while Roman Polansky is a convicted child rapist.
 
BarcaDeac said:
Wonder if all the parents who named their kids Khaleesi or Daenerys have regrets
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Eh if they were dumb enough to do that to begin with, they’re probably too dumb to realize the show actually ended up sucking and thought it was awesome.
 
surely you understand the impulse to not financially reward bad people

but I think there is a lack of forgiveness underpinning what passes for justice in our society
 
hey speaking of names, our son's decree of adoption was finally issued today meaning he now has his legal name (named after his two grandfathers for first and middle name) and not the stupid Baby Nick that he was issued at birth to get a Medicaid card. I think people thought we were redneck morons whenever we've had to give his name for various things.
 
BarcaDeac said:
hey speaking of names, our son's decree of adoption was finally issued today meaning he now has his legal name (named after his two grandfathers for first and middle name) and not the stupid Baby Nick that he was issued at birth to get a Medicaid card. I think people thought we were redneck morons whenever we've had to give his name for various things.
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Probably just something you were wearing.
 
Like we're going to say "Shia LaBeouf, you can't act in major motion films anymore, but if you want to produce pop music under a surname, have at it. You want to direct alternative theater? Sure. You want to be an angel investor in a digital ad making firm for the Democratic Party? Yes, please! Sandwich Artist at Subway? Weird, but yeah, ok.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
surely you understand the impulse to not financially reward bad people

but I think there is a lack of forgiveness underpinning what passes for justice in our society
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It's not financial. No one is calling for him to lose his freedom to invest in the stock market, to buy lottery tickets, etc. To the contrary, our societies retributive desire seems to have a major blindspot for economics. We're perfectly fine with rich abusers, we just don't want to see them on television or in magazines.
 
I wish people put as much energy into promoting the things they do like and want to support, instead of throwing all energy behind the cancel culture.

It's one thing to learn less-than-savory news about someone after the fact and go, "yikes. there's a sordid story here I didn't know about... this changes my view of their art and how I feel about it. Let's make sure the other side of the story gets as much attention as it deserves" It's another to say "THEY WERE A TERRIBLE PERSON AND WE MUST BURN EVERYTHING THEY TOUCHED." That doesn't seem realistic, either.

I'm not saying this all specifically about Shia... this is applicable to pretty much everything. Thanksgiving isn't the hunky-dory pilgrim/indian event we all learned about in school? Good to know! Let's raise up the indigenous voices and stories and stop making culture-appropriating costumes out of paper bags. We don't have to kill Thanksgiving as a holiday, though. Our founding fathers were largely racist assholes? Are we really surprised, given the times? Really? Ok, either way... we can still appreciate where we are today, and make more effort to raise the voices and stories of everything else that was going on at that time AND ALSO recognize how those narratives shaped where we are today so we can start making the necessary societal/systemic changes.

We learn all about other countries and how they grow and change over the ages and when it comes time to be introspective, we collectively get all NIMBY about it and push the status quo. Trying to have reasonable conversation is exhausting.

...not sure where/why this ramble came out. Shia sounds like a scumbag if allegations are true.
 
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