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Thread: Is it time to start wondering is there a "culture issue" with Wake Forest Football

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by DownEastDeac View Post
    There's a "culture issue" with big-time college football in general.
    And as another poster mentioned earlier, at some point Wake (and a lot of other FBS schools, in particular the privates not named ND, MIA, SCAL, etc.) will have to decide if they want to continue to swim with the big boys, or that may get decided for them.

    Absolutely. And the typical knee-jerk response is often "well, the ACC will never kick-out a charter member....". I totally agree. It's just that the "big boys" may go somewhere else. Rice University can explain how that works.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by BillBrasky View Post

    Also you donít have to watch the lame ass Slow RPO all fall.
    Maybe this is a factor for Walker

  3. #23
    Relaxed rules regarding Covid eligibility and transfers are going to make the rich richer, and create an environment where schools like LOWF act as minor league teams who develop players. If the NCAA makes this a permanent deal, it will alter CFB forever, and not in a good way.

    I have no problem with a kid wanting to transfer, but it shouldn't happen without penalty-- either sitting out or losing a year of eligibility. If players want to look our for #1, the schools should be able to too. Schools invest a lot of time and $ into recruiting kids, and then they leave the program high and dry after signing day when they can't address the newly created long-term need.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by deacon14 View Post
    People really have to stop looking at things through the eyes of a fan and try to look at them through the eyes of the player. There are literally over 1,000 reasons a player might want to transfer. Maybe he doesn't like the academics of the school, maybe he thinks Winston-Salem is boring, maybe he hates Clawson, maybe he doesn't like some of his teammates. Transfers alone are not a sign of a culture problem.

    It also seems ridiculous to point out all these examples and ignore things like Boogie coming back for a fifth year.
    I canít speak to the current program, but the near constant criticism about Wake that heard from (Black) basketball and football players was the lack of a social life and lack of black students.
    Draxx them sklounst

  5. #25
    clawson has done great things at wake, but the truth is we are still a tier down from the consistent top-25 type programs and a lot of players on the nfl draft bubble probably would benefit from more exposure at a bigger football school

    but hell NW is looking legit in the big 10, so maybe Clawson can get us there

    it does seem like we're treading water as a 5-8 win bowl team each season but not a legitimate threat to win the ACC anytime soon

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by buckets View Post
    clawson has done great things at wake, but the truth is we are still a tier down from the consistent top-25 type programs and a lot of players on the nfl draft bubble probably would benefit from more exposure at a bigger football school

    but hell NW is looking legit in the big 10, so maybe Clawson can get us there

    it does seem like we're treading water as a 5-8 win bowl team each season but not a legitimate threat to win the ACC anytime soon
    unfortunately there are zero threats to Clemson in the ACC.

  7. #27
    KW3 is a lead back who needs to get more touches. Simple as that.

    I'm sure there are plenty of big programs in his ear. I don't think he's leaving for any reason aside from the fact he didn't want to split carries. He wants to be a bell cow and wants to go somewhere that can offer him that.

  8. #28
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    If you're a "bigtime football school" and you're giving Walker 25+touches a game, you're not having a good year and your recruiting is shit for a bigtime football school.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by buckets View Post
    clawson has done great things at wake, but the truth is we are still a tier down from the consistent top-25 type programs and a lot of players on the nfl draft bubble probably would benefit from more exposure at a bigger football school

    but hell NW is looking legit in the big 10, so maybe Clawson can get us there

    it does seem like we're treading water as a 5-8 win bowl team each season but not a legitimate threat to win the ACC anytime soon
    Who else in the league does look like a threat? Notre Dame was the biggest threat to win the ACC, not named Clemson, the last 5 years or more and Clemson waxed them in the title game. Fact is, there's Clemson and a whole bunch of pretender teams, which we are somewhere in the middle of. Honestly I'm not sure our ceiling is a lot higher than what you describe above, maybe every decade we have a 9+ win season. Nothing takes away from our title in 2006, but there was no other team in the league that year that was even in the same area code as where Clemson is right now. We've made great strides in football across the board, but the fact remains that we are handicapped by our size and academics. 5 straight bowls games, with the good prospects of extending that streak next year is really good. It took us until 1999 to even get to 5 bowl games in the program's history. Sure it's gotten much easier to get into bowl games now, but still.
    boorish ruffian

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Resilient Deac View Post
    KW3 is a lead back who needs to get more touches. Simple as that.

    I'm sure there are plenty of big programs in his ear. I don't think he's leaving for any reason aside from the fact he didn't want to split carries. He wants to be a bell cow and wants to go somewhere that can offer him that.
    Sounds like Jamie and I guess we will have to wait for that outcome.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyClutch View Post
    But he did opt out, and then declared for the draft. Which was 100% his prerogative to do so. His brother on the other hand played this season and was named All-Conference for the second year in a row. I am really curious to see which one gets drafted higher. Maybe Chazz thought he needed more tape to be an NFL prospect, while his brother didn't, but its interesting to see that one stayed and played, while the other decided not to.

    Sage was the 2nd RS-Soph WR to not play after a record setting season, so it makes me wonder about a possible trend.
    You mean the trend of Wake WRs leaving for the League? Or Roberson or Greene hoping to do the same thing. And that is a problem how? Do you really think Hinton now feels cheated by DC not giving him more chances at QB?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by myDeaconmyhand View Post
    I canít speak to the current program, but the near constant criticism about Wake that heard from (Black) basketball and football players was the lack of a social life and lack of black students.
    Conor had a very good article about that in the Journal last year.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by cheeseheads12 View Post
    unfortunately there are zero threats to Clemson in the ACC.
    Boy, is that not the truth! We have absolutely nobody even close to Clemson right now or seemingly in the near future to them.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyClutch View Post
    I fully expect derision and ridicule concerning this topic, but hear me out and then call me a moron.

    Over the last several years, Wake Forest Football has seen an influx of NFL talented players, however there has been an issue with those players staying with the program for one reason or another. On this list I would include Dortch, Newman, Surratt, and KW3. Each left the program under different circumstances, after remarkable seasons that put them on the NFL radar. Transfers, opt outs and declaring for the draft. Each had the opportunity to stay with the team, improve their stock, help the team improve, win more games etc. etc. but each chose not to for one reason or another.

    Now let me be clear, this is far from the entirety NFL talent over the past couple seasons, but after each of the last several seasons, we have lost a major player. I am left to wonder is this a Wake Forest issue or is this a college football thing?

    Is Wake going to have to deal with losing some of our most talented players to bigger programs each season, because they believe that they will get more exposure. If that is the thing, why are we not seeing this with MAC or Sun Belt players?

    Is it players declaring early for the draft after a good season is the issue. When you see redshirt sophomores declare early and go undrafted that raises a red flag. Thankfully Boogie stayed, but is he going to be the exception not the rule? Is this a problem that Clawson can prevent or is it just the way of college football now. I am comparing this to guys like Aaron Curry, Kevin Johnson, Camp, guys that exhausted their eligibility at Wake, and then went to the draft.

    I do not know the answer and am not even entirely sure if there is a problem, but the thought of Wake Forest football becoming a developmental program for players jump to bigger schools after a good seasons, is not one I relish. Nor do I look forward to continually have to replace starting RS-Sophs and Juniors every season.

    Ok, now you can tell me I am wrong.
    Maybe not wrong, we will have to wait and see. Naive and reactionary, more likely. Transfer opportunity, agents in ears and competition pushing playing time. Dortch may have misjudged NFL interest but had his injury history, Jamie may have misjudged his own talent thinking he wouldn't face it at UGA, Surratt had injuries but could still be too rounds pick and KWIII we will have to wait and see who values protection and cuts. Reality is Wake could end up with a 1st round pick, a top 3 round WR, #2 ranked WR who will return, #2 ranked NFL safety, a starting NFL QB and the top NFL Covid story of Hinton the emergency QB.
    I'll take that kind of culture problem any day.

  15. #35
    Broderick Hicks
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    What an incredibly idiotic thread.
    beer and titties

  16. #36
    Ricky Peral TimmyClutch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zqglass View Post
    What an incredibly idiotic thread.
    Maybe, but when an NFL caliber QB transfers because he thinks he can be better developed somewhere else, and the following year a RB with 13 TDs in 7 games transfers for more playing time elsewhere, you wonder what is going on. Last night I saw Quinton Cooley defend Walker's decision on twitter when someone said he was transferring to go to a bigger school and get more exposure, and Cooley said that was not the reason.

    I think its fair to ask whether or not the players feel like this staff is best to develop their football playing abilities. Whether it is just the offense we run or if there are other reasons we are not aware of.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by sportsmed86 View Post
    You mean the trend of Wake WRs leaving for the League? Or Roberson or Greene hoping to do the same thing. And that is a problem how? Do you really think Hinton now feels cheated by DC not giving him more chances at QB?
    The trend of WR's thinking that they are better off to leave two years early rather than stay even one more year and continue their development with this program, when neither of which were surefire 1st or 2nd round picks (CBS ranks Surratt as the 17th best WR in this current draft class).

    As an aside, Dortch literally could have still been on the team this past season as well as in 2021, which is crazy to me.

    I think Hinton is happy he stayed as long as he did to develop as a player. He played one season of WR and made a practice squad. So I am not sure where you are going with that?

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyClutch View Post
    The trend of WR's thinking that they are better off to leave two years early rather than stay even one more year and continue their development with this program, when neither of which were surefire 1st or 2nd round picks (CBS ranks Surratt as the 17th best WR in this current draft class).

    As an aside, Dortch literally could have still been on the team this past season as well as in 2021, which is crazy to me.

    I think Hinton is happy he stayed as long as he did to develop as a player. He played one season of WR and made a practice squad. So I am not sure where you are going with that?
    Surratt is much closer to Jesse Bates in terms of NFL readiness than Greg Dortch. Dortch is really the only wideout who left to go pro who could've benefited from more games. And one person does not make a trend.

  19. #39
    Ricky Peral TimmyClutch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeachBumDeac View Post
    Surratt is much closer to Jesse Bates in terms of NFL readiness than Greg Dortch. Dortch is really the only wideout who left to go pro who could've benefited from more games. And one person does not make a trend.
    Thats a fair comparison, Bates was the 131st ranked prospect in 2018 and Sage is the 107th for this draft. This is a very strong WR draft, and Sage is different type of WR than a lot of the guys ranked ahead of him. There will sure to be teams who prefer him over other guys.

  20. #40
    KWIII seeks attention. Granted, a couple of 80's Deacs, lead by MocksvilleDeac decided to jump on Twitter and talk a little trash to him, which is beyond unacceptable, but you can Tell KWIII kind of has a "me vs Wake" attitude about all of this, which is a shame.

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