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Thread: KP Report: WF @ UNC-ch -- Wednesday 7 pm ACCN

  1. #181
    ^ Yep I think a third of their points came from points off turnovers.

  2. #182
    Massoud not having a position isn't the same thing as him playing out of position. Sure, Bacot shot 80% against him and dominated down low. If he's really not a 4 then you can say he's playing out of position. But he has the handle of a 4 at best and is by no means quick, so he is nowhere close to being a guard. So whether you want to call him a small forward, a stretch 4, whatever - he's simply outmatched at whatever position you put him in against middle to top tier ACC starters. He's effective off the bench against backups, he's effective shooting off of picks and has great range. But then he gives most of it back on the defensive end even when he's scoring.

    Plus on this team he's never going to challenge Mucius in the small forward role. I like him plenty as a role player off the bench when we have a favorable matchup. But if wants to be a starter for a decent team Thunderbolt is right - he's got to pick a lane and either work hard on his handle and quickness or bulk up and work on defending bigger players than him. And it's not like Forbes is making him post up on offense - he spends 90% of his time around the 3 point line. If it's a "mismatch" on both ends of the floor that's not a position issue.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by cheeseheads12 View Post
    ^ Yep I think a third of their points came from points off turnovers.
    24 of 80, just about. Last night and the couple of games before made it pretty obvious Wake is going to need Herculean efforts from Daivien Williamson to win more than 1 or 2 ACC games this season.

    Wrote about that here.

  4. #184
    Agreed DCDeac. He just takes a bunch of 3s off of ball screen pick and rolls. Iím really trying to see it but I just canít envision him as a high level ACC wing with very limited athleticism and ability to handle the ball off the dribble.

  5. #185
    I love Forbes and am really excited about what he'll bring (have a lot of ETSU connections and am really excited about how he'll gel the team and interact with the community post-COVID), but one concern I have is our in-bounds plays under the basket. It seems that every inbound is a lob to someone cutting away from the basket. I'm not seeing much of a concerted cut before hitting this check-down (although we get close to a 5 second count a lot). UNC sat on that a couple of times and got a steal for an easy lay in (which they missed once). Is this personnel, execution, or by design?

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by IamThunderbolt View Post
    He doesn't have the lateral quickness to play the wing right now, and has never reached 4 fouls (only reached 3 twice this season). The question is, do you think it's easier to improve quickness or bulk up without significantly affecting his shot?

    I think he and Johnson are interchangeable right now with Jalen being a little ahead on defense - Ish probably gives a little more on inside defense and Jalen is more active in the passing lanes and has more blocks. Should just ride whichever of these two is hot as both seem to be a little streaky - both shooting 36%, but clustered in bunches for both.
    It's not just bulking up. He's years behind PFs and Cs in development at those positions. The play at those positions is dramatically different than what he's done his entire bball life.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by WRS View Post
    Agreed DCDeac. He just takes a bunch of 3s off of ball screen pick and rolls. Iím really trying to see it but I just canít envision him as a high level ACC wing with very limited athleticism and ability to handle the ball off the dribble.
    i think you are right, but i don't think it was ever realistic or fair to expect massoud to be a high-level acc wing. but there is tremendous value in getting acc caliber role players, and i think massoud can certainly do that even if he's just a 3-point shooter at his current rates (10 3PA per 40 minutes, making >35%). but as mentioned, i think the easiest path for massoud is to continue bulking up and settling into a solid stretch 4 role. especially these days, that type of player is not only useful, but borderline critical.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by IAppreciateIt View Post
    i think you are right, but i don't think it was ever realistic or fair to expect massoud to be a high-level acc wing. but there is tremendous value in getting acc caliber role players, and i think massoud can certainly do that even if he's just a 3-point shooter at his current rates (10 3PA per 40 minutes, making >35%). but as mentioned, i think the easiest path for massoud is to continue bulking up and settling into a solid stretch 4 role. especially these days, that type of player is not only useful, but borderline critical.
    You are most likely right re: realistic expectations. Obviously without a lot of returning talent I think we all kind of latched on to him and were like ďhey this is the guy with MuciusĒ.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by IamThunderbolt View Post
    I love Forbes and am really excited about what he'll bring (have a lot of ETSU connections and am really excited about how he'll gel the team and interact with the community post-COVID), but one concern I have is our in-bounds plays under the basket. It seems that every inbound is a lob to someone cutting away from the basket. I'm not seeing much of a concerted cut before hitting this check-down (although we get close to a 5 second count a lot). UNC sat on that a couple of times and got a steal for an easy lay in (which they missed once). Is this personnel, execution, or by design?
    Could it just be a product of priorities? Heís taking a ragtag team and re-teaching them the basics so maybe heís fine with focusing on offensive/defensive systems (or whatever). It seems hard to believe that a guy who has won this many basketball games could just rely on the middle school half court lob inbounds!

  10. #190
    I agree on the inbounds stuff. I don't understand why that on an opponent made basket our closest down low player, usually a big, quickly steps to take ball and passes it inbounds. Don't wait to let the other team set up a defense. Worked for me years ago. Our guards should be ready for such a sequence.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by MichDeac25 View Post
    Yeah, that was pretty awesome. He went ballistic. Davien looked over and then calmly made both free throws. As to Davien, I have to say that Forbes' recognition to (1) recruit him to play at ETSU and and (2) know that he can play in the ACC despite his size really bodes well for his ability to assess talent.
    Hopefully so. But he also felt, I think,he needed someone like Williamson on the team who knows Forbesí system.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by IamThunderbolt View Post
    I love Forbes and am really excited about what he'll bring (have a lot of ETSU connections and am really excited about how he'll gel the team and interact with the community post-COVID), but one concern I have is our in-bounds plays under the basket. It seems that every inbound is a lob to someone cutting away from the basket. I'm not seeing much of a concerted cut before hitting this check-down (although we get close to a 5 second count a lot). UNC sat on that a couple of times and got a steal for an easy lay in (which they missed once). Is this personnel, execution, or by design?
    Paint Touches did virtually nothing right, but he did design some good OOB plays.

  13. #193
    At this point I think Neath and Whitt need to become secondary ballhandlers and focus on scoring. Watching your shot go through the hoop improves confidence from production. Neath improved last season in this role. He always had Childress to rely on as the primary PG. By the end of the season he could handle the point when necessary.

    If Jahcobi and Carter can provide points they contribute. Focus on the quick pass for assists. Quit trying to make things happen, let them happen as part of the offense. If they contribute their ballhandling will improve.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL68 View Post
    Loved hearing Forbes yelled at about finishing the game correctly in a game that we knew we weren't going to win. that kind of discipline and expectation setting will pay dividends down the road once we have the talent to compete. We have no post game.
    Disagree about post game. Ody is so improved and when he avoids dumb fouls, makes the other Bigs play him. Okpomo might improve like Ody by working and working and should be good for 10 mins. Got Bacot in trouble, Holes just had 3 legit Bigs.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackjackMc View Post
    At this point I think Neath and Whitt need to become secondary ballhandlers and focus on scoring. Watching your shot go through the hoop improves confidence from production. Neath improved last season in this role. He always had Childress to rely on as the primary PG. By the end of the season he could handle the point when necessary.

    If Jahcobi and Carter can provide points they contribute. Focus on the quick pass for assists. Quit trying to make things happen, let them happen as part of the offense. If they contribute their ballhandling will improve.
    Unfortunately neither is much of a shooter and someone has to handle the ball with Williamson getting a blow. I could see Jalen spotting the PG some vs Zeke whose handle can be spotty except against bigs.

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