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Shame on Deacon fans

Frosty said:
Lol. Dude definitely follows the team. Not trying to put down the passion because it's something we obviously need from current students, but questioning bona fides here probably isn't the best look. A lot of the folks here have stuck with this team through more than a decade of sucking ass and were around well before that. Popping in here like a year ago and questioning how much a long time poster follows Wake sports is laughable.
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I didn’t even know we had members here that didn’t join in ‘11 or ‘12 haha.
 
Nah. I think it’s fair because I’m sure plenty long time posters and Wake fans don’t know much about the new players on this team. Even posters who knew about the transfers are surprised by how good they’ve been.
 
Wakefan77 said:
If completely sucked is referencing the postseason then yes I agree with you. Some of those regular seasons were fun as hell though and the Joel was rocking during many of those "good" years. Too bad we can't get some of our rich donors to donate like Bob has done with the football program and just level the fucking Joel. To me, that should be the next "big" thing with Wake Athletics. Either burn it down, or do a major overhaul to the current setup. It's time.
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Are you suggesting that our home court records exceeded what you would expect based on our neutral-court post-season records?
 
The Joel was just as loud as Cameron for a handful of games in the few seasons that Wake was very good 20/10 years ago, the majority of those seasons there were still a few thousand empty seats. Times have changed and even the best teams are having attendance problems. Can’t just dismiss the problem by saying it used to be loud occasionally. It’s a problem that needs to be fixed. It’s much too large. Decreasing the seating to 12k might work for the civic center aspects, but for Wake basketball it should be even smaller than that.
 
The Joel was never as loud as Cameron on any sort of regular basis. Your home venue ought be judged on (1) how recruits view it when they attend and (2) the environment during a midweek bubble game against Boston College.


Our venue sucked for that then. Those here will tell you that I was saying this is 1996—not 2021 or 2011
 
Ghostsurfer said:
I agree with Rafi, but the OP is right in a way (maybe 3 games later if attendance is still low). I agree it would be awesome if attendance was a bit stronger and we had more butts in seats. Right now it's families and let's just say the more "quiet older fan" at the games. However, as others pointed out, COVID, weak non-conference games, and years and years of apathy by students and WFU fandom have gotten us to where we are.

But, it would be nice to turn that tide like we did with football and get the place rocking ala Tye Dye Nation! We have a nice team that is fun to watch! It would be cool if started filling the place and getting that extra edge.
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I like your optimism, but two games does not a tide turn (thank you, Dr. Lovett). I agree with the premise that winning sells tickets and we’ll be wishing we had 14k seats to sell when Forbes starts filling it. Keep the faith, y’all.
 
donaldross said:
The Joel was never as loud as Cameron on any sort of regular basis. Your home venue ought be judged on (1) how recruits view it when they attend and (2) the environment during a midweek bubble game against Boston College.


Our venue sucked for that then. Those here will tell you that I was saying this is 1996—not 2021 or 2011
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I agree that a smaller venue matches better with our school size - I think everyone agrees with that. But you greatly overestimate the importance of the home arena compared to many other much more important factors. Look at South Carolina - the men and women play in an 18,000 seat arena. The men are middle of the road, at best, and the women are #1 in the country. They use the same arena - the difference is the coaches. And, this year the women are averaging 13,000 fans per game vs the men at 9,000.
 
Do you think Duke wishes they had 14k seats to sell? Of course not, like Villanova and Gonzaga their goal is to win.

What is wrong with the basketball brains for Wake alums. Packed, small, intimidate houses is what sells in college basketball. 18 year olds don’t like being recruited to morgues. That’s one of the main reasons we sucked for the last 30 years.

Can a Tim Duncan or Chris Paul fall in the lap of a Wake Forest? Of course. But what happens next? The next recruit comes and compares the atmosphere at the Joel and Cameron and that’s that. And we are right back to sucking.

Why wouldn’t we want to give our team the tools to win? Best possible venue for our particular school. Best Coach. Best AD.

To win at Wake Forest long term, you must do all 3. We have a A+++ AD and A+ Coach and a D- venue for a school with 5k undergrads.

If we cared as a community about what happens in 2035, we must get them all in the A category. Clearly, in 1989 we “settled” because money was tight. Whether that was a necessary decision is up for debate. What isn’t up for debate is that this is not the best venue for 2030 for us.
 
Meh... size does not preclude winning. This could be the best venue for us by as soon as 2024 but probably a year or two beyond that.
 
1976Deac said:
Meh... size does not preclude winning. This could be the best venue for us by as soon as 2024 but probably a year or two beyond that.
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How? In what reality do you expect Wake Forest basketball to start drawing 16k in 3 years. It’s not going to happen. I’m curious how we even bring recruits to the Joel right now, surely us playing in a 40 year old 2/3 empty cavern has to hurt recruiting
 
Investing money in a dying sport like college basketball seems very dumb

Just play some early season games at the Reynolds HS gym. It seats around 1000 and is in a much better location than the Joel. Would make it a much better atmosphere.
 
I don't think a single person would not choose the new, smaller, intimate arena vs the current situation. But if currie can't get it done it, or at least a plan for it, it's just not an argument worth having. Waste of time. But that's pretty much every message board ever so...
 
donaldross said:
Do you think Duke wishes they had 14k seats to sell? Of course not, like Villanova and Gonzaga their goal is to win.

What is wrong with the basketball brains for Wake alums. Packed, small, intimidate houses is what sells in college basketball. 18 year olds don’t like being recruited to morgues. That’s one of the main reasons we sucked for the last 30 years.

Can a Tim Duncan or Chris Paul fall in the lap of a Wake Forest? Of course. But what happens next? The next recruit comes and compares the atmosphere at the Joel and Cameron and that’s that. And we are right back to sucking.

Why wouldn’t we want to give our team the tools to win? Best possible venue for our particular school. Best Coach. Best AD.

To win at Wake Forest long term, you must do all 3. We have a A+++ AD and A+ Coach and a D- venue for a school with 5k undergrads.

If we cared as a community about what happens in 2035, we must get them all in the A category. Clearly, in 1989 we “settled” because money was tight. Whether that was a necessary decision is up for debate. What isn’t up for debate is that this is not the best venue for 2030 for us.
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Again, you wildly overvalue the importance of the arena. You are infatuated with Cameron, which clouds your opinion. If Duke struggles for a few years, everyone will be wondering what’s wrong with Cameron. It only took half a year without K in 94-95 and Cameron went silent (except for the UNC game). You could build the ideal on campus arena at Wake, and if Manning is the coach attendance and atmosphere would struggle.
 
donaldross said:
Do you think Duke wishes they had 14k seats to sell? Of course not, like Villanova and Gonzaga their goal is to win.
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Villanova does. That’s why they play big games in the 20,000 seat Wells Fargo Center.
 
BillBrasky said:
Investing money in a dying sport like college basketball seems very dumb
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This is a good point. College basketball may be even more of a niche sport in 10 years with IGNITE and other alternatives popping up. I can’t bring myself to actually watch college basketball games that don’t involve Wake. I may try to watch PSU-LSU tonight.
 
At least PH is being honest here.

There is only 1 reason we are not building our own small venue and have not: we have chosen not to invest in our basketball team.

If you want to go to a school that cares about men’s college basketball and is willing to do what it needs to win, Wake Forest is simply not that place. Our alums have other priorities.

God bless Bob McCreary. At least he invests in something. Without him, Wake football would be in the trash heap like the basketball program.
 
There's no pointing out logic to drew here he is a true believer.
 
ChrisL68 said:
There's no pointing out logic to drew here he is a true believer.
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I actually agree with DR except that it is just not feasible or realistic. The best we can hope for is to convert the Joel into a 12k arena. I think Duke’s success is circular - team good, demand for tickets go up, team gets better, and so forth. If you replaced Cameron with the Joel, the team would not be as good. I do think UNC, State, and Wake made mistakes going away from Carmichael, Reynolds, and Memorial. When I was a kid and wake played in Greensboro, wake would play one ACC game at memorial (Georgia Tech). It was awesome and crazy loud. So, DR, you are right that the Joel was a mistake but unless you want to be the Bob Mcreary of basketball, wake us stuck with it.
 
Funny that we sold out both Duke and NCSU at 30K+ for football this season but can't enough people for a good bridge game for basketball.

My how things have changed at Wake. Football is king.
 
TheAbster said:
Funny that we sold out both Duke and NCSU at 30K+ for football this season but can't enough people for a good bridge game for basketball.

My how things have changed at Wake. Football is king.
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Not exactly the same. Football is only 6-7 home games and almost always on a weekend.
 
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