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Phil Mickleson

PhDeac said:
Much like Lebron, I could see Tiger motivated to stick around and be a regular touring pro if Charlie makes the PGA Tour.

Whatever Tiger wants to do will come with plenty of $$$ attached if he's in playing shape.
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The difference will be that Charlie would have to actually be good enough and actually EARN his spot. Bronny is going to get drafted for the sole reason the NBA team will want Lebron for a year or two. Bronnys are a dime a dozen in terms of his size, ability, and athleticism. He's 6ft 3 and is NOT a one and done level player by any stretch. I doubt he would be top 100 if it weren't for his name - I think he's rated anywhere from the 30s to the 50s. Lebron needs to let Bronny earn whatever he gets.
 
guitardeac said:
The difference will be that Charlie would have to actually be good enough and actually EARN his spot. Bronny is going to get drafted for the sole reason the NBA team will want Lebron for a year or two. Bronnys are a dime a dozen in terms of his size, ability, and athleticism. He's 6ft 3 and is NOT a one and done level player by any stretch. I doubt he would be top 100 if it weren't for his name - I think he's rated anywhere from the 30s to the 50s. Lebron needs to let Bronny earn whatever he gets.
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Not entirely true. Dru Love traded on his name to get a ton of sponsor invites. Charlie Woods can easily gravytrain his name to max sponsor invites as long as his dad could potentially play as well.
 
Yeah I know but sponsor invites are a lot different. You cant get but a few and if he plays well enough to earn status from those then he earned it. Bronny will be DRAFTED in the first round in all likelihood and not even be close to that level of a player and it will be for one reason - the money windfall Lebron will be for the NBA franchise that takes Bronny. Charlie will have to play well to make it and to stick at the PGA tour level.
 
You can hate Phil for all kinds of reasons. And players do.

But he's dead right on this issue. The PGA Tour chooses not to pay the players to be employees. That's their choice. Now they can't treat them like employees and restrict what else they can do. That's draconian and illegal.

Other players aren't speaking up on the issue (yet) because they are scared of what the greedy PGA Tour will do.

The owners of the PGA Tour aren't motivated by golf's best interest. They are only motivated by their own pocketbook. That's all well and good but it shouldn't be perceived as noble. It is what it is, a money grab.
 
You should give Phil a call and offer to handle the case for him.
 
donaldross said:
You can hate Phil for all kinds of reasons. And players do.

But he's dead right on this issue. The PGA Tour chooses not to pay the players to be employees. That's their choice. Now they can't treat them like employees and restrict what else they can do. That's draconian and illegal.

Other players aren't speaking up on the issue (yet) because they are scared of what the greedy PGA Tour will do.

The owners of the PGA Tour aren't motivated by golf's best interest. They are only motivated by their own pocketbook. That's all well and good but it shouldn't be perceived as noble. It is what it is, a money grab.
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Isn't the PGA Tour a member-run organization? Don't believe the PGA Tour just do things unilaterally - my understanding is have bylaws they agree to and representative player committees that have to approve things.
 
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Phil just threw out numbers like $800M in PGA Tour coffers with 0 proof that is actually the case. Rory laughed it off, saying he has seen the numbers and Phil is just wrong that there is some stockpile of close to a billion dollars the Tour is sitting on.

Who is wrong?
 
DeacsPop said:
Fans love Phil. No denying that.
This too shall pass.
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Yeah, when you read the comment sections below some of these youtube videos, there are many Joe Sixpacks who think Phil can do no wrong. That said, I don't think Phil should ever be a RC captain after this.

DR, you have made the blanket statement that what the PGA is doing is illegal. One page previously, LK asked you to explain exactly what is illegal. We're still waiting. And you're alleging that the PGA isn't looking after the best interest of the game. And the $audis are? Siphoning off some of the PGA and DP players to play on a rival tour when many of those events will be at off times for us watching in the US is in the best interest of the game? The other thing that will happen to players who leave is that they will lose most of their sponsors. But the Saudis will probably pay well enough that that won't matter. And you keep mentioning these other players who feel the same way as Phil. Please name these unnamed players. Every player who has spoken up has denounced Phil. I've yet to hear anyone say, "I'm committed to playing the PGA tour, but I don't think they should bar any of us who want to play here and play on the Saudi tour." You're not going to get suspended for saying that.

The 1 thing about this whole kerfuffle that I can agree with was Peter Kostis pointing out the selective outrage directed at Phil only for taking Saudi money. No one on TGC is criticizing Bubba Watson or Harold Varner for taking Saudi appearance fees or Jack Nicklaus for building golf courses in Saudi Arabia. All the piling on Phil from both players and commentators could also be pent up frustration with him over the years, and this is a convenient occasion for it to boil over. Kinda similar to no one ever criticizing Tiger for anything, then piling on him after his infidelities became public.
 
donaldross said:
You can hate Phil for all kinds of reasons. And players do.

But he's dead right on this issue. The PGA Tour chooses not to pay the players to be employees. That's their choice. Now they can't treat them like employees and restrict what else they can do. That's draconian and illegal.

Other players aren't speaking up on the issue (yet) because they are scared of what the greedy PGA Tour will do.

The owners of the PGA Tour aren't motivated by golf's best interest. They are only motivated by their own pocketbook. That's all well and good but it shouldn't be perceived as noble. It is what it is, a money grab.
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Character matters.
 
PaddyWF said:
Phil just threw out numbers like $800M in PGA Tour coffers with 0 proof that is actually the case. Rory laughed it off, saying he has seen the numbers and Phil is just wrong that there is some stockpile of close to a billion dollars the Tour is sitting on.

Who is wrong?
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I’ll have to go back and look but I took those comments to mean the Tour is leaving millions/billions on the table by not having their own NFTs like NBA Top Shot.
 
donaldross said:
You can hate Phil for all kinds of reasons. And players do.

But he's dead right on this issue. The PGA Tour chooses not to pay the players to be employees. That's their choice. Now they can't treat them like employees and restrict what else they can do. That's draconian and illegal.

Other players aren't speaking up on the issue (yet) because they are scared of what the greedy PGA Tour will do.

The owners of the PGA Tour aren't motivated by golf's best interest. They are only motivated by their own pocketbook. That's all well and good but it shouldn't be perceived as noble. It is what it is, a money grab.
Click to expand...

Interested to know who the "owners" of the PGA Tour are.
 
The PGA Tour players' pension is the key. That's the real benefit to the players. The prize money pales by comparison. I saw years ago that Justin Leonard's pension was around $100 million as an example. Phil's is said to be in the $800 million range. The Tour is right to require - again agreed to by the players - a minimum number of events or they can't expect to get the type of benefits they get as a group. The Tour is a member organization and members agree to certain stipulations, including not being allowed to play on certain other tours if decided by the Tour. It's all about that pension guys.
 
Not sure I buy that. Someone (Leonard) that's made $30M on the PGA Tours has a $100M pension? I found an article from 2016 that had Phil's pension = $8.3M (third highest).
 
RattlerDeac said:
Not sure I buy that. Someone (Leonard) that's made $30M on the PGA Tours has a $100M pension? I found an article from 2016 that had Phil's pension = $8.3M (third highest).
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Here's one mention in an article that mentions up to $100 million for Leonard and there are others.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/golf/profitable-pga-pension-for-woods-1.258929

I might be wrong on Mickelson though. Most things I found estimate his pension at $250 million and his net worth at $800 million. Maybe I read it wrong a couple weeks ago but I swear I thought I saw that his pension could be worth $800 million. I will keep searching. I remember I was shocked at the number and I would thought $250MM was low since I knew that I had read an article years ago that estimated the pensions and Leonard's stood out to me back then.

I really recommend doing a search and reading about the PGA Tour pensions. It's pretty unbelievable. And I mean that literally.

Bottom line: the PGA Tour has BY FAR the best retirement program for it's athletes in all of professional sports. Fuck Phil
 
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It's a retirement program for athletes who can play competitively into their late-50s and 60s. That's definitely a huge bonus.
 
cville deac said:
Yeah, when you read the comment sections below some of these youtube videos, there are many Joe Sixpacks who think Phil can do no wrong. That said, I don't think Phil should ever be a RC captain after this.

DR, you have made the blanket statement that what the PGA is doing is illegal. One page previously, LK asked you to explain exactly what is illegal. We're still waiting. And you're alleging that the PGA isn't looking after the best interest of the game. And the $audis are? Siphoning off some of the PGA and DP players to play on a rival tour when many of those events will be at off times for us watching in the US is in the best interest of the game? The other thing that will happen to players who leave is that they will lose most of their sponsors. But the Saudis will probably pay well enough that that won't matter. And you keep mentioning these other players who feel the same way as Phil. Please name these unnamed players. Every player who has spoken up has denounced Phil. I've yet to hear anyone say, "I'm committed to playing the PGA tour, but I don't think they should bar any of us who want to play here and play on the Saudi tour." You're not going to get suspended for saying that.

The 1 thing about this whole kerfuffle that I can agree with was Peter Kostis pointing out the selective outrage directed at Phil only for taking Saudi money. No one on TGC is criticizing Bubba Watson or Harold Varner for taking Saudi appearance fees or Jack Nicklaus for building golf courses in Saudi Arabia. All the piling on Phil from both players and commentators could also be pent up frustration with him over the years, and this is a convenient occasion for it to boil over. Kinda similar to no one ever criticizing Tiger for anything, then piling on him after his infidelities became public.
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There is the tiny obvious group who aren't getting lit up but should who feel the same way Phil does. There is another group, albeit small, that might feel like they should be getting more out of the tour, because Phil and crew ran around spilling all their grievances to anybody on tour who would listen.

The vast majority of players do not feel the same way Phil does. To even think that they would is stupid as those are the same people Phil claims to be holding back the top guys and taking money out of his pockets.

HV3, Bubba, etc. should be lit up but you're right that they aren't. Phil always said that he was going to be the human meat shield for those guys and it's playing out that way right now.

The people who really care about golf, know all the players and the shittery, the general public however does not.

Nicklaus' history with the tour makes his comments as cringy as the rest of his are.

I also don't think this is the end for the Saudi League, but I don't think that they're going to get the big named fields that they were wanting. If you also listen to the players further down the latter, while there will be some guys who jump from the KFT, there is a decent chunk that will still want to stick with the PGA tour as that's what they've always dreamed of. No Laying Up's podcast today with Justin Hueber was a good one and it was nice to hear his thoughts on everything.
 
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Seems like the Saudi Tour would be the logical landing spot for former prominent golfers that can't really cut it on the PGA tour, and aren't quite old enough for the Champions Tour, or feel like they are above grinding on the Champions Tour. Guys like Westwood, Luke Donald, Jim Furyk, Graeme McDowell, Martin Kaymer, Mickelson, Adam Scott. If it survives, there will be a few rogue players like Bryson who may also go for the money grab. Have no idea if the PGA can enforce a lifetime ban on a player that leaves the PGA Tour to play on a rival tour. Funny to me that DR acts like he knows the answer when seasoned golf/law people agree that the issue is murky. If we could only be as perceptive as DR. Loves to jump to make impulsive statements and then refuses to ever backdown.
 
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