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Does Wake Forest make a bowl game in 2013-2014?

Does Wake go bowling this year

  • Total voters
    284
  • Poll closed .
I want to see what we do with a serviceable Oline. We can win six games easy.
 
mebanedeac said:
I agree; but, it is good to be optimistic at some point. Once the season begins optimism is usually much more difficult to come by.
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The last 5 summers we have heard a lot of "Happy Talk" from this program. "We're the closest team I've ever been on", "We all work hard", and so on. But when things get tough during the season, there is no leadership from the upper classmen (3rd,4th and 5th year players). The stat from a previous post of our dismal late season record, is exhibit A. We got to a bowl game in '11 because of a 1 pt win vs Duke, and beating a pathetic Maryland team. Even in '08, we had a great start (3-0) then went .500. This is a character trait of this program, and Grobe has not shown the ability to change it. There is no player in the locker room who has overcome the October-November swoon.
 
I will bet money no future coach takes Wake to an Orange Bowl. Not in my short lifetime. Grobe might do it again. He's been there.
 
inspectah said:
2-2 against the first four is reasonable to expect. I doubt we beat ULM - they are very solid. Army is improved over last season and we barely beat them a year ago. Plus it's a road game and there will only be about 15,000 people there so we will have no emotion. BC could go either way as usual. We have struggled to beat some of their worst teams.
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No one thinks we will improve with as much returning as we have. But others will improve with new qb's and others returning? Makes no sense.
 
Lohengrin said:
Well, one man's wine, eh? I think it's relevant because Grobe hasn't repeated that feat since then. It's thus, in my view, an outlier that cannot be expected going forward, and it enhanced the program for three years and no further.

He gets credit, but trying to look ahead I'm more interested in what we can really expect, not what was a fluke.
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Many coaches have only won one NC, does that mean you can't expect it going forward?

I agree with you that Coach Grobe has shortfalls, but to discredit completely what he has done is disingenuous. If you think that he can't do it because it's hard to do at Wake Forest then I would probably agree with you. To say that he can't do it again because he has only done it once is stupid.

ETA: Sorry, you did not say that it "doesn't count", you only said that it "was a fluke...and can't be expected going forward." That's still petty in my opinion.
 
You totally misunderstood and misconstrued my comment. The "feat" that he couldn't repeat was recruiting another class similar to the Fresh Deacs. Not going to the Orange Bowl. Deacsfan, sometimes it seems you look for an obtuse angle just to be pissy and angry.
 
Here's the full post Deacsfan:
Originally Posted by Deacsfan27

I don't think you can take out the Fresh Deacs because he recruited them here. He certainly deserves the credit for getting them here does he not? You can't just take out the three best years of any other coach.
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Well, one man's wine, eh? I think it's relevant because Grobe hasn't repeated that feat since then. It's thus, in my view, an outlier that cannot be expected going forward, and it enhanced the program for three years and no further.

He gets credit, but trying to look ahead I'm more interested in what we can really expect, not what was a fluke.
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So what you've done is taken remarks about recruiting the Fresh Deacs, and called it about "going to the Orange Bowl only once". WHY DO YOU LIE!!! lol
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Many coaches have only won one NC, does that mean you can't expect it going forward?

I agree with you that Coach Grobe has shortfalls, but to discredit completely what he has done is disingenuous. If you think that he can't do it because it's hard to do at Wake Forest then I would probably agree with you. To say that he can't do it again because he has only done it once is stupid.

ETA: Sorry, you did not say that it "doesn't count", you only said that it "was a fluke...and can't be expected going forward." That's still petty in my opinion.
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As for your remark about me being "petty", I disagree obviously. I think if you ask other non-Wake/OGB-glasses people they will aver that it was indeed a fluke; not really something that was predicted or could be counted upon being repeated. Grobe gets credit for doing it and kudos to him, but if he can't sustain a program, which is the much bigger accomplishment, then it's just a one-shot wonder that we can only expect once in a lifetime (which is what many, many Wake fans said when it happened -- I didn't agree at the time because I believed, and still do, that Wake can be successful in football and other major sports).
 
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Deacsfan27 said:
ETA: Sorry, you did not say that it "doesn't count", you only said that it "was a fluke...and can't be expected going forward." That's still petty in my opinion.
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What a ridiculous comment.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Many coaches have only won one NC, does that mean you can't expect it going forward?

I agree with you that Coach Grobe has shortfalls, but to discredit completely what he has done is disingenuous. If you think that he can't do it because it's hard to do at Wake Forest then I would probably agree with you. To say that he can't do it again because he has only done it once is stupid.

ETA: Sorry, you did not say that it "doesn't count", you only said that it "was a fluke...and can't be expected going forward." That's still petty in my opinion.
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The ACC has two coaches from that '06 season, that are still coaching in this league, Beamer and Grobe. The other programs have gotten better. Switching L'ville for Maryland won't help either. The point from my post is that for the last five years Wake has failed late in the season. It's a character flaw that must be over come. If Wake wins 3 games in Oct and 3 more in November, I'll believe in the long term success of the program. We must get over this hurdle.
 
DEACS76 said:
The ACC has two coaches from that '06 season, that are still coaching in this league, Beamer and Grobe.
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and Beamer just had a rough 7-6 season, not a losing season like us, but a rough one, and what did he do in the off season? Well, he made some serious changes to his coaching staff.


Scot Loeffler was brought in from Auburn to take over as offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach. Loeffler, in turn, added Auburn staffer Jeff Grimes to handle the offensive line and supervise the run-game strategy. Next, Aaron Moorehead jumped cross country from Stanford to take over the wide receivers. Exiting were former N.C. State head coach Mike O’Cain (quarterbacks), Curt Newsome (offensive line) and Kevin Sherman (receivers).

“Change isn’t easy for me,” Beamer said when the housecleaning was finalized in January. “At the same time, you’ve got to do what you think is right for your overall organization, and that’s what I’ve done in this case … I think with different personalities and so forth, these guys can bring freshness to the organization.”


http://www.wralsportsfan.com/wolfpack-qb-carousel-sure-to-spin-as-season-starts/12672374/
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Many coaches have only won one NC, does that mean you can't expect it going forward?

I agree with you that Coach Grobe has shortfalls, but to discredit completely what he has done is disingenuous. If you think that he can't do it because it's hard to do at Wake Forest then I would probably agree with you. To say that he can't do it again because he has only done it once is stupid.

ETA: Sorry, you did not say that it "doesn't count", you only said that it "was a fluke...and can't be expected going forward." That's still petty in my opinion.
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Before I begin, I need to state that Grobe without question has had the most impact as a Head Coach in WFU Football history (Walker has more wins and a better winning percentage, but he was here from 37-50, thus was here pre ACC and Bowl Era). In fact, I believe that our success from 2006 through 2008 was real and not a fluke based on the following.

- Those teams were full of talent. There were 13 players drafted that played on those teams (By far the most of any era), including Aaron Curry who won the Butkus Award and Alphonso Smith seven interceptions in 2008 and eight in 2007 both lead for the most in the country and his career total of 21 is an ACC record.

- 2006 was not a fluke because it was followed up with 2 winning seasons at 9-4 and 8-5.

- Were ranked in the Top 25 each season for at least 1 week, 06 9 weeks as high as 14th finished 18th, 3 weeks as high as 21st, 08 6 weeks as high as 16th. The last time we were ranked was in 93 for 2 weeks and finished season 25th, and before 93 in 79 we were ranked for 3 weeks. Therefore, being ranked 3 seasons in a row for multiple weeks showed that we were respected by the voters.

- During this era we were routinely winning games against teams from BCS conferences such as the SEC and Big 12 even road games on a regular basis:
- 06 Syracuse, at Connecticut, at Ole Miss, at Vanderbilt
- 07 Connecticut, at Navy, at Vandy
- 08 at Baylor, Mississippi, Vandy
- One could argue that WFU was basically playing season of only "Conference" games because from 06 through 08 the only non BCS team they played was Navy.

- Never finished below .500 in the ACC: 06 6-2, 07 5-3, 08 4-4. Prior to this WFU only finished above .500 in the ACC 5 times ( 87 and 88 were the only back to back at 4-3)

My point is that during the 06 to 08 seasons Grobe was building a winning program. However, something has happened to prevent what he started from growing into a winning program (Some will try to argue that in 3 of the 4 years we were only 1 game under .500, but later I will prove that our losses are much worse than they appear). Personally, I believe it is a combination of 2 variables, recruiting and the inability to adjust to change.

First, I believe they knew how to find diamond's in the rough to fit their system, and at times were lucky in recruiting, aka Aaron Curry, early in Grobe's tenure. There were 6 All Americans on those teams, prior to that we had 6 All Americans total from 83-02. From 03 - 11 we had at least 5 All ACC players including 9 in 06 and 8 in 07. Before the Grobe ERA we only had 2-3 per year, but every so often there were 4 or 5 for a season. However, Grobe was unable to capitalize on this success with recruiting better talent. In fact, I would argue that since 08/09 the talent being recruited has decreased. The question is why? (I dont want to hear academics because Grobe already proved this invalid with the talent from when he got here through 08, his first class were seniors in 05 assuming they red shirted. Therefore, he had around 4-5 classes with players with good players). Around 08-09 is when the recruiting had to change. I dont believe Grobe was only lucky because he had not just 1 or 2 great classes, but 4-5. There is a chance that the original scouts have left the program, and the new ones dont have the same skills in evaluating talent. In the end, I dont know what has changed.

Second, the other coaches/teams in the ACC have figured out how to game plan against Grobe, and Grobe has yet to readjust. In simple terms, football is a game of cat and mouse/ chess. A team has an "identity", and their game plans evolve from this. A "Hard Knocks" team will use the I-Formation or Pistol (nothing more than I-Formation in shotgun), and will try to wear down the defense throughout the game by running the ball down their throat. Then there are "Finesse teams" that use some variation of the spread, and will use 4 or 5 WR sets and try to exploit a mismatch like a LB covering a WR in the slot. However, when a coach is with the same team for a long time other teams figure out not only their game-plan's but how their tendencies (how they react to change). As a result, if the coach is unable to constantly adapt, then he will lose more often than win.

The great coaches never have a "set" identity. Instead their identity is the ability to adapt their team that week to exploit the other team's weaknesses. For example, when Saban faces a team with a mobile QB he will (1) hardly blitz (2) have at least 4 linemen rush the QB but create a larger pocket around the QB that prevents him from breaking outside, and thus forces him beat them by throwing the ball. When they face a pocket QB then they tend to blitz a lot and change coverage.

Even though we change the offense every year, Grobe's overall philosophy has always been conservative, and thus predictable. If we have a lead in the 4th quarter we will try to run clock out by running the ball at least 2 or 3 times each drive, and then play a zone defense, sometimes in prevent if its very late in the game. Also, you need a defense that is mentally tough because always knowing the pressure is on you every week will begin to take its toll. From 06-08 this philosophy worked by and we were 12-6 in games deiced by 7 points or less, and 28-12 overall. Also, we won 15 games by 10+, and of the 12 loses only 3 were by 10+ points.

In time, teams around the league began to figured us out, and we never readjusted our philosophy while at the same time we recruited less talented players. Since 09, we are 7-13 in games decided by 7 points or less (7 of the 13 losses were when we had a lead entering the 4th quarter, and 5 times we had a 10+ point lead), and 19-30 overall. However, we have lost 16 games by 10+ points, and of those 16 games 13 were by 20+ points. My point is that its one thing to lose a tight game, but over 3 years when you have lost 35% of the games you played by 20+ points it should send up a big red flag that what you are doing is not effective.

Even if Lobo figured out what a football is, it would not matter because the defensive philosophy of "bend but dont break" has become a joke.

- In 06-08, in 40 games we allowed more than 24+ points 7 times/18%, and 30+ points 3 times/6%. Also, we allowed less than 14 points or less 16 times/40%.

- In 09-12 in 49 games we allowed more than 24+ points 26 times/53%. Also, we allowed less than 14 points or less 5 times/10%.
- Even more disturbing we allowed more than 35+ points 14 times/28%.
 
Another great write-up, 'BAMA. Those players that made those teams special didn't show up to camp as All-Americans. The player developement program back then must have been a whole lot better. Don't forget what an asset Sam Swank was. Maybe adding Belin and Stubby will help.
 
I think we went to an Orange Bowl because we had a coach ACC programs hadn't much experience with, we had some solid talent, we caught some breaks, we played hard and we had the emotional component of the fifth quarter stuff. In other words, for one season everything came together. And that's usually how it happens. Ask State or Carolina or Clemson or whoever. And it can happen again. I just don't expect it. I would love to be proven wrong.
 
It was a magical year. If Chip Vaughan doesn't block that FG vs. Duke -- which looked to be clearly heading in -- it could've been completely different

And the caliber of quarterbacking in the conference was truly atrocious in 2006. Daniel Evans, Joe Dailey and Reggie Ball found themselves in a situation teams often do against Wake -- down by less than a TD with the ball late in the game. Way more often than not, ACC QBs have been able to come up with winning drives against our D. But those three were bad enough that they couldn't pull it off. We did at least stop Matt Ryan, but he was pretty gimpy and wasn't really an all-out force until his senior year anyway.

We won it, it was awesome and no one can take it away. But given that a number of things have deteriorated in our program since then, AND the quality of our opponents has improved ... our slim and none chances to win the ACC under Grobe have gone out the door
 
Bama, I posted this a few weeks ago on the recruiting thread. It addresses your first point. It's a new era of recruiting and Grobe hasn't adjusted.

PhDeac said:
Grobe's success from 2006-08 was primarily due to players who committed between Dec 2002 (Jon Abbate, Steve Justice, Kevin Marion, Kenny Moore - 2003 class) and late Jan/early Feb 2005 (John Russell, Riley Skinner, Boo Robinson - 2005 class). That's a 26 month period that ended over 8 years ago. Recruiting since then has been flat.

Think about that for a second. Grobe was recruiting based on the promise of going to the Seattle Bowl in 2002. BB&T Field was still Groves.

Most importantly, it was eons ago in terms of recruiting. YouTube went on line Feb 14, 2005. All of a sudden, it wasn't up to some guy from Scout or Rivals to find videos of a prospect and make them available in a crappy format behind a premium subscription. Players and their family/handlers could upload videos themselves and coaches could just scan the internet for clips of players to help fill out their classes. The odds of a player like Aaron Curry only have offers from ECU and Wake two weeks before signing day or a Boo Robinson being signed at the last minute are much lower now than they were pre-YouTube.

The bold is dead on. Our staff can't just bank on under the radar kids when the radar has gotten much larger.
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