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It's happening before my very eyes...

Wakeforest22890 said:
The character assassination continued on by the old white guys is great.

I feel bad for the reasonable old white guys.
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It is a bit sad and frustrating to read how some posters (particularly two on this thread) try so hard to portray themselves as knowing what really went on, while demonstrating that they actually have no clue. They regurgitate a narrative that is both erroneous and biased, relying on AD spin to support their POV while demonstrating that they know neither what truly went on in the past nor what is happening now. Unfortunately, one insists on doing it in a condescending manner. Good advice for all of us would be to not act as if we know the whole story. The folks who know may allude to a few things, but those that attempt to set everyone else straight are probably not our best sources for reliable insight. This entire mess just makes me sad.
 
BabyDeac75 said:
This entire mess just makes me sad.
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Once they realized they could no longer defend the Bz hire in terms of performance on the court, the defenders of Ron had to come up with another narrative. So rumor and innuendo was recklessly thrown out, regardless of how true it was and how damaging it might be, and the fans of Ron lapped it up and spread it. Sickening.
 
I could really care less about the whole Dino situation as I am stuck in the present. What makes me sad was reading this on the AP write-up:

Coron Williams added 11 points for the Demon Deacons, who shot nearly 49 percent while reaching the 14-win mark for the first time under fourth-year coach Jeff [Redacted].
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I mean seriously, think about that - it took four years to reach 14 wins in a season...
 
It really is annoying because the firing of Dino was justified from a basketball perspective. The only reason people remember Dino fondly is because the replacement has lost so many games. In an alternative universe, if Wellman had hired the 2010 version of Mike White, he could have gotten away with any Ath Dept spin he wanted. But no sympathy for Wellman - when you fire an average coach and replace him with a coach that has been this awful the reasons concocted for the change are going to be dissected.
 
Remember how sad we were when Skip died? I mean, I honestly felt like a member of my own family had died. I hate to say it, but if I heard this afternoon that Bzz died, I'd probably be sad for a split second as when I hear any human dies and feel bad for his family, but then I can't lie I would probably be fist-pumping and texting my buddies in glee.
 
BabyDeac75 said:
It is a bit sad and frustrating to read how some posters (particularly two on this thread) try so hard to portray themselves as knowing what really went on, while demonstrating that they actually have no clue. They regurgitate a narrative that is both erroneous and biased, relying on AD spin to support their POV while demonstrating that they know neither what truly went on in the past nor what is happening now. Unfortunately, one insists on doing it in a condescending manner. Good advice for all of us would be to not act as if we know the whole story. The folks who know may allude to a few things, but those that attempt to set everyone else straight are probably not our best sources for reliable insight. This entire mess just makes me sad.
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Do you think we'll ever hear the truth?
 
I've read here numerous times that the players don't like bzzz...except for Green. True? Who knows, but that resonates with the attitude of every Wake fan I personally know. EVERY one if them.
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Well, if the majority of these kids don't like Buzz they're doing an unusually good collective job of hiding that before, during and after games. What I'm seeing every time I watch a game is positive....energy, enthusiasm and lotsa hussle. Believe me, I'm looking for but haven't seen any negative body language in time-out huddles or anyone sulking or visibly tuning out Buzz. On the contrary, they seem like a close nit group that seems to enjoy playing team basketball and....Gawd forgive me....well coached.
 
mothersodear said:
Do you think we'll ever hear the truth?
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seems to me if we read between the lines and pay attention to the hints we have an accurate, if murky, picture. don't think we need to know player a, b, c did x, y z. we know all college kids to dumb things. some dumber than others. add a few random, and bad, incidents and you have enough rumor and innuendo to spin into what has become serious character assassination against dino and many former players. add the accounts that current players have been and continue to be involved in "college shenanigans" along with wellman, bzz and their lacky's claiming "everything is cleaned up" and you have some very significant character flaws with adults that are supposedly responsible for teach college kids how to be adults. that's what bothers me the most. in order to make themesleves look and feel better kids have been thrown under the buss as needed and incidents have been hidden as needed.
 
bobknightfan said:
Great post. That's exactly what I'm seeing. Unfortunately, there are many posters on this board whose minds were made up a long time ago and their egos will not permit them to admit that they might be wrong. This is not really surprising, when you think about it.....though it is kind of sad. These people have got to be hurting with each new WF win. I feel the best about WF basketball that I've felt in a long time.
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That's a familiar feeling for you, isn't it?
 
bobknightfan said:
Unfortunately, there are many posters on this board whose minds were made up a long time ago and their egos will not permit them to admit that they might be wrong.
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Something about pots and kettles comes to mind...
 
I’d be willing to bet that Wellman thought that Bz, given his X’s and O’s acumen, would build smart, veteran teams at Wake Forest that would be more successful than the Dino athleticism model – particularly in the post season.

After that wasn’t working, it was an easy transition to the culture change narrative to save face. They likely did plan day 1 to change the program to a smarter/more veteran team compared to the Dino era (but for strategic reasons). It was a natural extension to shift that strategic change into improving the “culture” of the program to mask bad results.
 
bobknightfan said:
Great post. That's exactly what I'm seeing. Unfortunately, there are many posters on this board whose minds were made up a long time ago and their egos will not permit them to admit that they might be wrong. This is not really surprising, when you think about it.....though it is kind of sad. These people have got to be hurting with each new WF win. I feel the best about WF basketball that I've felt in a long time.
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The tough thing here is that after 3.5 years, we are now performing at a level that is still below our historical average. I don't know why we should be praising the fact that a coach who has 30+ years of experience in basketball has managed to get us almost to the level of our historical average. I would expect pretty much anyone with this amount of basketball knowledge to be able to do this, its what has nearly always happened at WFU. Its really not that hard to be sitting where this team is at this point in the season.

Given our resources, history, conference and NBA Deacs, this season is kind of the bare minimum in terms of what we should expect from a WFU basketball team. You would have to try really hard to do much worse than we have this year.
 
FckVwls said:
I’d be willing to bet that Wellman thought that Bz, given his X’s and O’s acumen, would build smart, veteran teams at Wake Forest that would be more successful than the Dino athleticism model – particularly in the post season.

After that wasn’t working, it was an easy transition to the culture change narrative to save face. They likely did plan day 1 to change the program to a smarter/more veteran team compared to the Dino era (but for strategic reasons). It was a natural extension to shift that strategic change into improving the “culture” of the program to mask bad results.
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I've not seen anything from Bz to suggest he's a basketball whiz...but I think you are right about what Wellman was thinking. Problem is that in college you have to recruit talent, and Bz has not shown that he can do that at an upper-ACC level. This model might lead to an NCAA berth every 4 years or so, but we will not ever have the talent to contend for championship in the ACC, much less the NCAA. Also, all those out there giddy about watching this team "improve," just keep in mind that the program itself has not improved, and is still far behind (in actual performance) our program the two decades prior to Bz. When we make it to the third round of the NCAA, then you can say we're improving.

ETA: Vwls, I didn't mean that you were suggesting this. Your point just made me think of it.
 
My point is there is huge gap between what the Ath Dept is selling: “Sure we were winning but our program was a mess and we needed to clean it up - even at the expense of winning - with more 4 year student athletes”

And, what I think happened: “Look at Butler. If we have a smarter, more veteran team with an X’s and O’s coach we won’t flame out early every post season like with Dino. Need more four year student athletes ….. [2 years later] Oh wait, that strategy isn’t working? Well at least let’s emphasize to the public that we have four year kids in the program now, as compared to before, and at least get some credit for improvement in that area."

Big difference I think.
 
bobknightfan said:
Great post. That's exactly what I'm seeing. Unfortunately, there are many posters on this board whose minds were made up a long time ago and their egos will not permit them to admit that they might be wrong. This is not really surprising, when you think about it.....though it is kind of sad. These people have got to be hurting with each new WF win. I feel the best about WF basketball that I've felt in a long time.
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Well to be fair you did abandon Wake Basketball for 20+ years, including probably the best 15 year stretch the program has ever had (1990-2005). (Not sure exactly when you came back on board).
 
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