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The VP Debate

Trump's gonna pay for it all guys. He's a business man, and he's just gonna eliminate fraud and abuse then make it rain. And Mexico is paying for the wall guys. It's time to accept that.
 
It's pretty silly - or biased - to take any major conclusions away from last night's debate. Both candidates did much to reassure/reinforce their base, but neither really made end roads to undecideds or third party voters.
 
ChrisL68 said:
I didn't see the first 20 or so minutes when kaine supposedly had his worst performance but I thought he settled down fine. He mostly attacked Trump using Trump's own words which Pence couldn't defend without straight-out lying. I guess when you're trying to rationalize how Trump can win this election this is a good as place to be as any

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Had he not exaggerated everything Trump supposedly said, he would have been fine. He allowed Pence to ignore his attacks because they were not quite accurate.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
yeah, which part was hyperbole?
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You serious? How many times did he repeat "Donald Trump hates Mexicans." I get that he's doing it for a reason, but he exaggerated all of Trump's viewpoints the entire debate. I know you hate the guy, but you're smart enough to pick up on that.
 
DG3 said:
You serious? How many times did he repeat "Donald Trump hates Mexicans." I get that he's doing it for a reason, but he exaggerated all of Trump's viewpoints the entire debate. I know you hate the guy, but you're smart enough to pick up on that.
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oh, i thought your comment was about MDMH's post; a little confusing
 
PhDeac said:
I don't think you get what Gergen was saying. Kaine was trying to push through a script rather than have an organized conversation. He was hopped up on attack lines.
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Maybe overhyped then. Overprepared just isn't a thing.
 
Didn't read this but I'm in the camp that Pence doesn't care about the Trump campaign he's just out there for himself at this point. He at times gave a halfhearted effort to defend something Trump had done when it aligned with his own views or interests, but wasn't up there defending Trump because he knew how that played out.

Kaine's job was to just spout every ridiculous thing Trump has done or said.

My favorite part was when Kaine rattled off about six of his clearly prepared attacks on Trump, which were all quotes from Trump, and Pence called them "insults." Is it really an insult towards Trump if you're just repeating what Trump said?
 
ImTheCaptain said:
oh, i thought your comment was about MDMH's post; a little confusing
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Yeah, purposefully narrowing Bernie's platform down to free college as the only "crazy" idea is in his comparison was hyperbolic. Bernie had quite a few ideas that aren't exactly mainstream.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Didn't read this but I'm in the camp that Pence doesn't care about the Trump campaign he's just out there for himself at this point. He at times gave a halfhearted effort to defend something Trump had done when it aligned with his own views or interests, but wasn't up there defending Trump because he knew how that played out.

Kaine's job was to just spout every ridiculous thing Trump has done or said.

My favorite part was when Kaine rattled off about six of his clearly prepared attacks on Trump, which were all quotes from Trump, and Pence called them "insults." Is it really an insult towards Trump if you're just repeating what Trump said?
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doesn't matter, all it takes to win is shrug, deny, lie and call everything untrue and stay calm while doing it
 
Seeing reports that Trump is upset that Pence did well on at least two grounds: performed better than Trump in a debate scene and did so by refusing to defend some of Trump's statements and views that Kaine attacked.

Only Trump would be upset that his running mate did well. Of course that's a thing.
 
I flipped on this debate late and saw Pence deny that Trump said Putin was a good leader, when the rest of the entire world saw him do this on TV like 2 weeks ago, then dodge when Kaine called him out on not supporting any of Trump's policies. At that point I turned it back to the baseball game.
 
CantStandYa said:
It's pretty silly - or biased - to take any major conclusions away from last night's debate. Both candidates did much to reassure/reinforce their base, but neither really made end roads to undecideds or third party voters.
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If that is the case, it is because it was just the under card.

Hillary won her debate with Trump and it changed her chances of victory significantly. Pence won this debate even more convincingly but it may not really matter.

The strongest point this makes for Trump is that he selected a good VP and he is a delegator. Trump needs to convince people that he will hire better people than himself to do the job and that he is just the "big picture" guy. This plays into that narrative.

Hillary is much more hands on and Kaine so it only hurts her if people are worried about Kaine as president.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Kaine's job was to just spout every ridiculous thing Trump has done or said.
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Problem was that he almost every time distorted what Trump said and this allowed Pence to dodge.

Would have been much more effective sticking to accurate Trump quotes.

It's like a tunnels discussion.
 
ChrisL68 said:
I didn't see the first 20 or so minutes when kaine supposedly had his worst performance but I thought he settled down fine. He mostly attacked Trump using Trump's own words which Pence couldn't defend without straight-out lying. I guess when you're trying to rationalize how Trump can win this election this is a good as place to be as any

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Wouldn't be shocked if Kaine isn't HRC's VP in 2020. Trump puts college educated Whites into play for Dems in 2016, but they can't count on that again in 2020. Kinda depends on how AZ ends up in 2016 or how Castros do in TX in 2018. Probably need to turn out more of the traditional Dem coalition in 2020. Could see Kaine getting replaced by Booker, Kamala Harris, or Xavier Becerra in 2020. Kaine isn't Biden-he's sincere in his religious beliefs, but he's not as personable, doesn't deliver working class voters, and HRC doesn't need a Senate bwana.

Pence is ambitious and shrewd and he knows none of his lies about Trump's prior statements will matter. IA's the only state where Pence adds anything and it's marginal to HRC, especially if AZ numbers continue moving favorably. Clinton campaign will know within the next week where they are in IA based on early voting data. They'd gladly trade IA for AZ. Pence is a 2020 long shot, but he also knows none of the 2020 GOP wannabes are going to hammer him for lying/not supporting Trump aggressively enough.
 
tigerswood said:
Found it hilarious how often Kaine tried to bring up tax returns. Blah blah blah North Korea, but WHY WON'T HE RELEASE HIS TAX RETURNS??

Also, really liked Pence's line about "Do you not take all of the deductions that are afforded to you?" Thought he should have stated it a little more firmly/actually gotten an answer. If anyone in the U.S. thinks that a single one of these politicians are not using the tax code 100% to their advantage, they are kidding themselves.
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Sure. And that's why people are complaining about the tax code that allows them these advantages.
 
knowell said:
If that is the case, it is because it was just the under card.

Hillary won her debate with Trump and it changed her chances of victory significantly. Pence won this debate even more convincingly but it may not really matter.

The strongest point this makes for Trump is that he selected a good VP and he is a delegator. Trump needs to convince people that he will hire better people than himself to do the job and that he is just the "big picture" guy. This plays into that narrative.

Hillary is much more hands on and Kaine so it only hurts her if people are worried about Kaine as president.
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Trump won't allow it to be public knowledge that he isn't the head guy in charge. Damages his "brand"
 
DG3 said:
You serious? How many times did he repeat "Donald Trump hates Mexicans." I get that he's doing it for a reason, but he exaggerated all of Trump's viewpoints the entire debate. I know you hate the guy, but you're smart enough to pick up on that.
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A huge majority of Trump's campaign is Us vs. Them. Mexicans and Muslims are at the top of the list. To say Trump hasn't spewed hate towards Mexicans from the second he got off the escalator is to ignore the campaign. As recently as Tuesday, Trump was having "Build the wall" chants. "Build the wall" is 100% about being anti-Mexican/Hispanic.

It's not an exaggeration. It's a core reason why Trump is the nominee.
 
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I do enjoy the one idea that Pence decided to defend was that the campaign is not insult driven while in real time Trump is tweeting insults about Kaine.
 
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