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Official Russian Election Interference Thread

jhmd2000 said:
They did exactly what the Dems should be doing. Simmering down and letting incompetent leadership fail. It worked.
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Absolutely not. They let the Tea Party and Sarah Palin types take over. They lost their own party, the Party of Regan, T Roosevelt and Lincoln, to a bunch of angry idiots who's only political objectives are to oppose liberalism and cut taxes.
 
riscdeac said:
One of JMDs comments - the other side would do the same thing if offered information. Would they? I think so.

Anyway, this isn't exactly what we are talking about today but I do remember this. I'm not trying to minimize the Trump scandal but I'm trying to find similar situations where there may be some interference from foreigners in our election In some capacity.

This isn't on the same level however I remember this from way back. It wasn't a big deal or could it have been?


http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/24/obama-campaigns-illegal-foreign-donations/
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Tom Fitton is a hardcore RWer who has hated everything Obama. His CVV red herring shows no proof.
 
avalon said:
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So wait a minute...is he suggesting that Don Jr. LIED?
 
riscdeac said:
One of JMDs comments - the other side would do the same thing if offered information. Would they? I think so.

Anyway, this isn't exactly what we are talking about today but I do remember this. I'm not trying to minimize the Trump scandal but I'm trying to find similar situations where there may be some interference from foreigners in our election In some capacity.

This isn't on the same level however I remember this from way back. It wasn't a big deal or could it have been?


http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/24/obama-campaigns-illegal-foreign-donations/
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So in the past 48 hours you've innocently posted from conservativetree, some article claiming this Russian lawyer is in private practice and not connected to the govt, a piece from Dershowitz and now something from Tom Fitton. I sense a pattern.
 
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riscdeac said:
One of JMDs comments - the other side would do the same thing if offered information. Would they? I think so.

Anyway, this isn't exactly what we are talking about today but I do remember this. I'm not trying to minimize the Trump scandal but I'm trying to find similar situations where there may be some interference from foreigners in our election In some capacity.

This isn't on the same level however I remember this from way back. It wasn't a big deal or could it have been?


http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/24/obama-campaigns-illegal-foreign-donations/
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Pubs on here seem really desperate these days.
 
You should read that Sarsour speech in whole if you think that it was bad from the snippets floating around the internet and on right wing sites.
 
riscdeac said:
I agree with you. On the flip side, the Dems lost their party to the far left. Identity politics and grievances along with angry protests such as Occupy Wall Street. The Dems jumped on that band wagon. What was Occupy Wall Street? Go figure. Anyone with a gripe who ventured downtown to be part of an angry mob with no clear direction or purpose. Pelosi and gang jumped on the bandwagon.

How is Linda Sarsour and her anti-Semite pro Palestinian rhetoric a champion for women? Feminism?

Dems need to move center.
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I'm sorry, but this is not true. Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, etc. are not far left. In fact part of the Democratic party's electoral ineptitude in the last few years is because they have failed to motive the young far left to vote for them. Occypy Wall Street was just as much a protest against the Dems as it was against the Pubs. As several have pointed out, BernieBros by and large were just not that excited about Hillary, especially after the way the DNC treated Bernie, and so some percentage of BernieBros didn't bother to vote.
 
The overall "it's not a big deal" response from Republicans in politics, media, and regular joes suggests many members of the GOP got help from Russians.

Most likely, they won't get punished for it in 2018 and if they do, any investigations will be branded a partisan witch hunt.
 
PhDeac said:
The overall "it's not a big deal" response from Republicans in politics, media, and regular joes suggests many members of the GOP got help from Russians.

Most likely, they won't get punished for it in 2018 and if they do, any investigations will be branded a partisan witch hunt.
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This is what John Schindler has been suggesting for close to a year now. There are small amounts of smoke coming from this house now.
 
jhmd2000 said:
They did exactly what the Dems should be doing. Simmering down and letting incompetent leadership fail. It worked.
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:bowrofl:

If we are going to talk, lets at least be honest.
I certainly remember a bunch of simmering down between the inauguration and 2010. Death Panels! "The President is not an American!" Apology tours! Secret Muslim! And that was just congress and former vice presidential nominees. What about FoxNews and the conservative media? Or the idea that voter fraud was rampant because a black man was elected President and a woman elected governor in NC? Did the American public not have enough information to fully vet Senator McCain before the 2008 election?

Y'all (and you specifically, I might add) lost your shit after 2008. And were rewarded for it. This is nothing more than rinse, wash, repeat.

Is it good for the country? Probably not. But it is was pretty effective politics between 2008 and 2010. Time will tell whether it is as effective in 2018.
 
riscdeac said:
Nope Boston. I'm surprised you and hotair get along so well. Add a little salon this morning too. Come on........You must have missed my post where I said this Russia thing has meat. Finally there is a meeting with hard evidence that opens up a can of worms. Finally.

I don't know Fitton from a hole in the wall. I'm looking for something that may be similar to interference. No pattern. Simply questioning and wondering. Is all of this because Trump is a sleazy vulgar crooked ass?
Would others get away with stuff like this or similar stuff because they are popular and a politician in the club?

I am NOT minimizing the Trump scandal. When does "politics as usual" in the dirty sense cross the line? I am sincerely asking questions.
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We have laws that provide the line. Working with a foreign power to get dirt on an opponent crosses the line.
 
riscdeac said:
Nope Boston. I'm surprised you and hotair get along so well. Add a little salon this morning too. Come on........You must have missed my post where I said this Russia thing has meat. Finally there is a meeting with hard evidence that opens up a can of worms. Finally.

I don't know Fitton from a hole in the wall. I'm looking for something that may be similar to interference. No pattern. Simply questioning and wondering. Is all of this because Trump is a sleazy vulgar crooked ass?
Would others get away with stuff like this or similar stuff because they are popular and a politician in the club?

I am NOT minimizing the Trump scandal. When does "politics as usual" in the dirty sense cross the line? I am sincerely asking questions.
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You shouldn't post things from people you don't know. They could be crazy. Thus using them is counter-productive.
 
DeaconSig said:
:bowrofl:

If we are going to talk, lets at least be honest.
I certainly remember a bunch of simmering down between the inauguration and 2010. Death Panels! "The President is not an American!" Apology tours! Secret Muslim! And that was just congress and former vice presidential nominees. What about FoxNews and the conservative media? Or the idea that voter fraud was rampant because a black man was elected President and a woman elected governor in NC? Did the American public not have enough information to fully vet Senator McCain before the 2008 election?

Y'all (and you specifically, I might add) lost your shit after 2008. And were rewarded for it. This is nothing more than rinse, wash, repeat.

Is it good for the country? Probably not. But it is was pretty effective politics between 2008 and 2010. Time will tell whether it is as effective in 2018.
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First, I will respectfully decline the chance to get into personal attacks. I still think you're one of the good ones.

Second, there are always shrill voices. If you wish to judge a group by its lowest common denominators, I can't stop you. I would ask you to look at what the party as a whole did. Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan (the very first candidates to run after the onset of your alleged mass delusion) strike you as deranged radicals? I thought (and think) that they were responsible, moderate voices who would have made excellent leaders. If that's your evidence of epidemic derangement, I am not impressed. Voters passed on them, and we moved on (that's possible, I hear).

It seems there is still a great deal of debate about the road to November, 2016. We're probably back to "I can't stop you" territory, and that may be our destination. My party failed to listen to the concerns of Middle America. So did yours. Trump solved the Rub-ish Cube and he beat my party over the head with it in the Spring and yours in the Fall. We can either deal with that, or chase Soviet ghosts in the shadows as a way to re-write history. I'm ready to talk about the former.
 
riscdeac said:
I know the leaders you mentioned aren't far left.

Occupy Wall Street was a mess sorry.

I guess it makes sense regarding the young voters and Bernie. I liked Bernie too as the outsider. I was angry about what they did to him. DNC = big mistake.
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But Occupy Wall Street is not the Democratic Party, despite what Sean Hannity wants you to believe. Neo-Liberalism and Democratic Party, from BClinton onward, embraced Wall Street and Corporate America because they had piles of money to donate to campaigns and very lucrative jobs waiting for politicians their political careers were over. The Dems have been moving right for two decades to try and get their hands on all that sweet corporate donation money and with Hillary they even embraced Neo-Con Foreign Policy. Occupy Wall Street was a protest against cooperate dominance over our government and society; it grew out of the Ralph Nader crowd and the anti-globalism crowd of the early oughts and support grew when absolutely no consequences were leveled on the perpetrators of the 2008 economic collapse . It is pretty ridiculous to equate the Democratic Party with the Occupy Wall Street movement. Occupy started when Obama was president!
 
riscdeac said:
I agree with you. On the flip side, the Dems lost their party to the far left. Identity politics and grievances along with angry protests such as Occupy Wall Street. The Dems jumped on that band wagon. What was Occupy Wall Street? Go figure. Anyone with a gripe who ventured downtown to be part of an angry mob with no clear direction or purpose. Pelosi and gang jumped on the bandwagon.

How is Linda Sarsour and her anti-Semite pro Palestinian rhetoric a champion for women? Feminism?

Dems need to move center.
Click to expand...

Why is it only on the Democrats to move to the center? If you claim Dems are the furthest left they've ever been, you have to also concede Republicans have been dragged to the furthest right they have ever been. Maybe both sides of the aisle should move closer to the center.
 
jhmd2000 said:
First, I will respectfully decline the chance to get into personal attacks. I still think you're one of the good ones.

Second, there are always shrill voices. If you wish to judge a group by its lowest common denominators, I can't stop you. I would ask you to look at what the party as a whole did. Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan (the very first candidates to run after the onset of your alleged mass delusion) strike you as deranged radicals? I thought (and think) that they were responsible, moderate voices who would have made excellent leaders. If that's your evidence of epidemic derangement, I am not impressed. Voters passed on them, and we moved on (that's possible, I hear).

It seems there is still a great deal of debate about the road to November, 2016. We're probably back to "I can't stop you" territory, and that may be our destination. My party failed to listen to the concerns of Middle America. So did yours. Trump solved the Rub-ish Cube and he beat my party over the head with it in the Spring and yours in the Fall. We can either deal with that, or chase Soviet ghosts in the shadows as a way to re-write history. I'm ready to talk about the former.
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I don't have time for a more substantive response, that will come later. But I will say that finding a message that resonates with voters (or, for that matter, letting the other side step on their collective dicks with their inability to lead) and investigating russian influence are not mutually exclusive. And the suggestion that it shouldn't be pursued rings a bit hollow on a thread discussing how the President's son wanted to get dirt on an opposing political opponent from a foreign enemy.
 
AsesinoDeTortugas said:
Why is it only on the Democrats to move to the center? If you claim Dems are the furthest left they've ever been, you have to also concede Republicans have been dragged to the furthest right they have ever been. Maybe both sides of the aisle should move closer to the center.
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The Vice President is a proponent of electroshock therapy for gays.
 
DeaconSig said:
I don't have time for a more substantive response, that will come later. But I will say that finding a message that resonates with voters (or, for that matter, letting the other side step on their collective dicks with their inability to lead) and investigating russian influence are not mutually exclusive. And the suggestion that it shouldn't be pursued rings a bit hollow on a thread discussing how the President's son wanted to get dirt on an opposing political opponent from a foreign enemy.
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Take your time.

Let me argue that they are, because as a pragmatist I am convinced that four networks and most newspapers in her corner and a three-quarters of my micro-old life in the public eye gave Hillary Clinton every chance to make her case for the Presidency, and she couldn't close. I am not sorry to say that I don't think that the hated Rubes were duped by Soviets. I don't even think they were duped by Trump. Trump was a vector for their frustration. Trump was their F-you to the system. If hurt-wounded-Dems want to salve their emo-pain by waging jihad on the legitimacy of the Trump Presidency and actually get him removed, do you think that his voters are going to respect that outcome? You may never get them to vote for you again if you pursue a pundit-nullification insurgency.
 
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