I blame RJCountdown to one specific dumbass chiming in and blaming this on Wente.
I'm curious about your rationale on this as well, @PhDeac - borrower debt and Pell and first-generation outcomes seem like good ideas to me, but I don't really get upping measures of publications and citations, as well as doing away with class size and terminal degree faculty if we're trying to measure quality of undergraduate education.Why good overall? Does it have to do with making larger, more affordable state schools more attractive to students?
Not considering class size at all when determining the overall value of the educational experience makes absolutely zero sense.
SEC trying to get in on the ACC's claim for academic superiorityIt's a huge sign to me that larger schools paid for this change.
I agree completely. I have a child currently in college. He has two classes with more than 300 students and two with fewer than 20 students. The smaller classes are so much better from an educational perspective. The large class size introduces a bunch of logistical issues that take away from learning the material. His large classes have small breakout sessions, led by TAs. The quality of the TAs varies greatly, and the TAs often do not know simple things like assignment deadlines.Taking out class size is insane. Even at Wake, on average, the large lecture classes I took did not offer as good an educational experience as the smaller classes.
US News does have different rankings. Wake is ranked in the "National Universities" category, which tends to get the most press. US News also ranks "National Liberal Arts Colleges," which is where Davidson, Williams, etc. are ranked. The Liberal Arts colleges ranking does not include faculty citation data and places slightly more emphasis on student:faculty ratio (though they also eliminated class size this year).The previous rankings seemed heavily biased toward one type of education, small liberal arts schools with a heavy emphasis on PhDs teaching undergraduates.
The new rankings seem much more inclusive. Small classes aren’t universally better than large classes. Instructors with PhDs aren’t necessarily better than grad student instructors. Publications and citations are a much better measure of faculty prestige than simply terminal degrees as long as they’re not weighted too high.
birdman nailed it. Wake should feel fortunate to still be top 50 after these changes.
The main takeaway is the reminder than these lists are artificial. Weight them different ways to get different results. US News should probably generate different rankings with different goals in mind. At least they’re transparent about the statistics they use.
Terminal degrees of professors not being counted is pretty weird too. You'd get a better education from someone with a PhD here than learning through a TA at any of the huge state schools ahead of us.Taking out class size is insane. Even at Wake, on average, the large lecture classes I took did not offer as good an educational experience as the smaller classes.
Having been around higher education for almost 30 years now, I would argue that faculty citation factors have nothing to do with teaching ability, and, in fact, probably negatively correlate with the education experience provided by the professor. There are always exceptions, but in general, the faculty that heavily focus on their research often put a lot less emphasis on their teaching.Publications and citations are a much better measure of faculty prestige than simply terminal degrees as long as they’re not weighted too high.
The new methodology certainly favors large research institutions much than it did in previous years.It's a huge sign to me that larger schools paid for this change.