Chicago teachers are striking

[WakeandBake]

No one is bitching about teachers making 76k, just saying that it's hard to call that underpaid. It's a pretty competitive salary and should be enough to attract high quality teachers. However they are not getting results. Either they don't have high quality teachers (which means they shouldn't be paying them 76k a year) or they do have good teachers who aren't getting good results (which means hey shouldn't be paying 76k a year).

Also comparing teaching wages to investment bankers is the definition of an apple to oranges comparison.

It depends on what you, and society, value for their dollar. If your kid is only worth being taught by a middle of the road salaried, middle of the road mind, then don't complain about the results. You must not really place a high value on the person your kid spends his or her day with learning. You are saying that if the results suck, lower their pay. I'm saying if the results suck, perhaps we aren't attracting good enough people to teach our kids. I want to see the valedictorian teaching the kids, but the valedictorian goes to work for an investment firm and produces nothing except more money. That's fine and all, but if our kids are valued as much as they should be, they'd be getting the good education.

and how is that apples to oranges? I was talking about what our best and brightest choose to do for a living, and why.

 

[DeaconCav06]

I spent four years in college, followed by 3 years of law school, and in my first job out of college, I made $47,488 working for the federal government. That was in 2010. I did not get summers off either.

Forgive my lack of sympathy for these underpaid teachers.

I agree with their complaints about the evaluation process, however.

 

[DeaconCav06]

Also, I have long said that the greatest priority in this country should be the education of its children. Education is the key to solving the majority of this country's problems, and I would gladly provide money to further that goal. But calling them underpaid is a bit of a misnomer.

 

[BeachBumDeac]

Also, I have long said that the greatest priority in this country should be the education of its children. Education is the key to solving the majority of this country's problems, and I would gladly provide money to further that goal. But calling them underpaid is a bit of a misnomer.

They are underpaid in relation to that goal that you and many of us share.

 

[Skydog Deac]

I spent four years in college, followed by 3 years of law school, and in my first job out of college, I made $47,488 working for the federal government. That was in 2010. I did not get summers off either.

Forgive my lack of sympathy for these underpaid teachers.

I agree with their complaints about the evaluation process, however.

Which was your choice after law school. You can go work for cheap for the gov, you can go make big bucks in corporate law. In many states, where teacher salaries don't come close to those of Chicago, many teachers make much less, for years. You chose your low paying job, because you obviously did not have a lot of loans to pay back like many law school students do. Btw, teachers have no sympathy for your low paying job either.

Btw, I don't get so pissed at lack of pay for teachers, it's the lack of respect. They are America's right wing whipping profession. We give no incentives for excellent students to go into teaching. Those who do generally want to help students. Many do so with a patriotic spirit, not that it's ever recognized. America just constantly criticizes teachers and public schools. Parents assume no responsibilities, they just blame schools and teachers. WakeandBake is right, our priorities as a society are completely out of whack.

 

[DiegoTiger]

I spent four years in college, followed by 3 years of law school, and in my first job out of college, I made $47,488 working for the federal government. That was in 2010. I did not get summers off either.

Forgive my lack of sympathy for these underpaid teachers.

I agree with their complaints about the evaluation process, however.

So you chose to make less in order to get the experience working for the federal government would get you? What does a private practice lawyer coming out of UVA law get? Did you continue with the government job? Five years later at a ~2k a year pay bump are you making 55k a year like a fifth year teacher would be making? I'm guessing you peaced out for the bigger bucks....

 

[CHDeac]

Also, I have long said that the greatest priority in this country should be the education of its children. Education is the key to solving the majority of this country's problems, and I would gladly provide money to further that goal. But calling them underpaid is a bit of a misnomer.

I largely agree with this. However, I think there are other issues causing systematic issues with our educational system that wont be solved by throwing money at teachers or the system. We can help break the cycle of poverty with education and but need to make strides in reducing poverty to improve education. We need some innovation but our system wont incent or reward for it.

 

[DeaconCav06]

I didn't make the choice to go work for the government. Working for the government was the first job that I got after looking for jobs for 9 months. I had an offer with a big NYC firm and two days after passing the bar they called to congratulate me and take away the job that I had accepted 15 months earlier.

 

[WakeandBake]

I largely agree with this. However, I think there are other issues causing systematic issues with our educational system that wont be solved by throwing money at teachers or the system. We can help break the cycle of poverty with education and but need to make strides in reducing poverty to improve education. We need some innovation but our system wont incent or reward for it.

horseshit, respectively. Yes, we need to break the cycle of poverty, and eduction is one of the main ways. If a person is well-educated by teachers who themselves were good students, they have the tools to innovate. Just starving or 'incentivising' by cutting government services doesn't do jack shit if their aren't any good jobs out there. You seem to have this idea that the jobs are just waiting for the working poor to move up into and break the cycle. Where are they, exactly?

 

[avalon]

I spent four years in college, followed by 3 years of law school, and in my first job out of college, I made $47,488 working for the federal government. That was in 2010. I did not get summers off either.

Forgive my lack of sympathy for these underpaid teachers.

I agree with their complaints about the evaluation process, however.

Should've skipped law school and cashed in while you had your chance by going into teaching.

 

[Skydog Deac]

I didn't make the choice to go work for the government. Working for the government was the first job that I got after looking for jobs for 9 months. I had an offer with a big NYC firm and two days after passing the bar they called to congratulate me and take away the job that I had accepted 15 months earlier.

My apology for my wrongheaded assumption.

 

[WakeandBake]

Should've skipped law school and cashed in while you had your chance by going into teaching.

yeah or just gotten on the dole. apparently its a kick-ass existence and all you have to do is lay around and procreate.

 

[DeaconSig]

Which was your choice after law school. You can go work for cheap for the gov, you can go make big bucks in corporate law. In many states, where teacher salaries don't come close to those of Chicago, many teachers make much less, for years. You chose your low paying job, because you obviously did not have a lot of loans to pay back like many law school students do. Btw, teachers have no sympathy for your low paying job either.

Btw, I don't get so pissed at lack of pay for teachers, it's the lack of respect. They are America's right wing whipping profession. We give no incentives for excellent students to go into teaching. Those who do generally want to help students. Many do so with a patriotic spirit, not that it's ever recognized. America just constantly criticizes teachers and public schools. Parents assume no responsibilities, they just blame schools and teachers. WakeandBake is right, our priorities as a society are completely out of whack.

A-fucking-men. You only have to look at the usual gang of idiots on this thread to understand that.

 

[DeaconCav06]

yeah or just gotten on the dole. apparently its a kick-ass existence and all you have to do is lay around and procreate.

I had teachers that inspired me to achieve more. I agree with the teachers on their evaluation issue on this matter. My only point in discussing their current pay is that to call it "nothing" is a bit of a misnomer.

 

[DeacMan]

So far I've learned:

1 - Chicago teachers simply don't make enough money, even when they make more than teachers anywhere else, have a lower cost of living than many of other cities and the schools they teach in deliver incredibly crappy results.

2 - Teachers in Chicago are risking their lives daily to teach kids, yet curiously aren't demanding a safer work environment. They do, however, want more money and fewer schools that don't use union teachers.

3 - If we would just pay the existing teachers that have been in the schools delivering really crappy results, then surely the schools will do better. Because the argument is that the low salaries teachers are making today is preventing the profession from attracting better teachers. Not sure what that has to do with paying the existing teachers more. Since if we give the existing teachers what they want they'll make more and won't be able to be fired if the schools still do a shitty job. Are we trying to attract the best and the brightest or are we going to do what the current teachers want and make them better paid with tenure that will keep them secure in their jobs. So maybe I'm mixed up on the point you all are trying to make on this one. Help me really understand.

4 - It is the fault of the Republicans that teachers in Chicago don't make more money eventhough neither the mayor or any member of the city council is a Republican.

5 - No one cares about Chicago's fiscal realities. Teachers in Chicago just deserve more.

Glad we have Chicago's education issues mostly sorted.

 

[WakeandBake]

I had teachers that inspired me to achieve more. I agree with the teachers on their evaluation issue on this matter. My only point in discussing their current pay is that to call it "nothing" is a bit of a misnomer.

fair enough. I like to post in extreme hyperbole. :noidea:

nevertheless, our society doesn't value children. We talk a big game, coddle the hell out of them - but they subside on a diet of shit, and they are taught by the C students you sat next to in high school, all to keep taxes low for the so-called innovators to make a shit ton of money I guess. I'm still trying to figure out the end-game of supply-side gobbledygook, and Norquist-style tax gobbledygook. What good is all that money if we are a nation of fat, unhealthy uneducated assholes? Doesn't that sink all of us?

 

[WakeandBake]

So far I've learned:

1 - Chicago teachers simply don't make enough money, even when they make more than teachers anywhere else, have a lower cost of living than many of other cities and the schools they teach in deliver incredibly crappy results.

2 - Teachers in Chicago are risking their lives daily to teach kids, yet curiously aren't demanding a safer work environment. They do, however, want more money and fewer schools that don't use union teachers.

3 - If we would just pay the existing teachers that have been in the schools delivering really crappy results, then surely the schools will do better. Because the argument is that the low salaries teachers are making today is preventing the profession from attracting better teachers. Not sure what that has to do with paying the existing teachers more. Since if we give the existing teachers what they want they'll make more and won't be able to be fired if the schools still do a shitty job. Are we trying to attract the best and the brightest or are we going to do what the current teachers want and make them better paid with tenure that will keep them secure in their jobs. So maybe I'm mixed up on the point you all are trying to make on this one. Help me really understand.

4 - It is the fault of the Republicans that teachers in Chicago don't make more money eventhough neither the mayor or any member of the city council is a Republican.

5 - No one cares about Chicago's fiscal realities. Teachers in Chicago just deserve more.

Glad we have Chicago's education issues mostly sorted.

Well, I think we need the invisible hand of the market to guide us here. Perhaps after graduation we can auction off the best graduates to the highest bidders, with that money going back to the teachers who taught them each year along the way. Create incentive through competition. whaddya think?

 

[CHDeac]

horseshit, respectively. Yes, we need to break the cycle of poverty, and eduction is one of the main ways. If a person is well-educated by teachers who themselves were good students, they have the tools to innovate. Just starving or 'incentivising' by cutting government services doesn't do jack shit if their aren't any good jobs out there. You seem to have this idea that the jobs are just waiting for the working poor to move up into and break the cycle. Where are they, exactly?

You jumped to a numerous poor conclusions here. I think we need innovation in education (as we do in health care) to help break the cycle. We need to spend more but need to spend it in new ways.

FWIW, the idea that our best and brightest will chose education if it were a higher paid salary is misguided. I know very few top shelf MBAs who have the personalities or acumen to ever teach school.

 

[WakeandBake]

You jumped to a numerous poor conclusions here. I think we need innovation in education (as we do in health care) to help break the cycle. We need to spend more but need to spend it in new ways.

FWIW, the idea that our best and brightest will chose education if it were a higher paid salary is misguided. I know very few top shelf MBAs who have the personalities or acumen to ever teach school.

So its a personality thing? We'll, shit. Most people are assholes so we're collectively screwed.

I know a lot of MBAs who are pretty fucking dim-witted but could pass the program. I work with some and they aren't necessarily smart.

What the fuck is an MBA anyway? How do you teach business? Don;t you have to go out and roll up your sleeves and learn the shit from the ground up to be a good businessperson? meh

 

[avalon]

FWIW, the idea that our best and brightest will chose education if it were a higher paid salary is misguided. I know very few top shelf MBAs who have the personalities or acumen to ever teach school.

Really? I know a ton of MBAs that would be fantastic teachers. Some of whom worked with high school students during their time in grad school.

(And, to DeaconCav, I get your point, and was just being bratty. I don't think throwing money at the problem is the answer.)