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F is for Fascism (Ferguson MO)

TBDeac said:
Does it really make much difference in the defense if there was a broken bone or not? It doesn't seem to change the fact(?) that he was punched in the face.
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It doesn't? ok, does it establish any kind of basis for deadly force?

If you are lightly smacked open-handed in the face, is that grounds for deadly force?

I don't know, Im asking. But this guy's whole deal is that he feared for his life. He has said that a college-bound kid with no priors decided to reach for his gun, and punched him in the face, to establish his deadly force when the kid allegedly charged like a bull at him. I think the existence of evidence of a punch to the face that would indicate force enough to make one fear for their life is important.
 
WakeandBake said:
It doesn't? ok, does it establish any kind of basis for deadly force?

If you are lightly smacked open-handed in the face, is that grounds for deadly force?

I don't know, Im asking. But this guy's whole deal is that he feared for his life. He has said that a college-bound kid with no priors decided to reach for his gun, and punched him in the face, to establish his deadly force when the kid allegedly charged like a bull at him. I think the existence of evidence of a punch to the face is important.
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This is appropriate retaliation.
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WakeandBake said:
It doesn't? ok, does it establish any kind of basis for deadly force?

If you are lightly smacked open-handed in the face, is that grounds for deadly force?

I don't know, Im asking. But this guy's whole deal is that he feared for his life. He has said that a college-bound kid with no priors decided to reach for his gun, and punched him in the face, to establish his deadly force when the kid allegedly charged like a bull at him. I think the existence of evidence of a punch to the face that would indicate force enough to make one fear for their life is important.
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The report said his face was still very swollen. It seems like it was a punch with at least decent impact.
 
i'm also not comfortable going down the line of "some punches to the face of cops are ok and some are not ok" much as i'm not comfortable with the "cross this line and you get shot by cop" line.
 
TownieDeac said:
i'm also not comfortable going down the line of "some punches to the face of cops are ok and some are not ok" much as i'm not comfortable with the "cross this line and you get shot by cop" line.
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Sure. There a lot of options between "hey it's cool" and killing somebody.
 
Punching someone is not an immediate realistic threat to that person's life.


The point is that the police again leaked something to try and explain why a police officer shot a teenager dead in the middle of the day for no apparent rational reason. They did so earlier with the reports of the robbery which the police chief went on to admit that Officer Wilson did not know about at the time of the altercation.

It all smells like dirty, rotten tricks to me.
 
to me it is more illustrative in the sense of his "state of shock" in his response after the fact, than whether or not it means the use of force was or was not necessary.
 
deacphan said:
to me it is more illustrative in the sense of his "state of shock" in his response after the fact, than whether or not it means the use of force was or was not necessary.
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That was the point I was trying to make when I reverenced the "caved in face."
 
Liquid Karma said:
That was the point I was trying to make when I reverenced the "caved in face."
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I wouldn't have put it that strongly, but you were pretty all-in for Wilson's face.
 
Brown still punched a police officer, but who knows why? The news about the broken bone helps deconstruct the "narrative" painting Brown as some thug monster. Is the customer caller from the convenience store still anonymous?
 
I think the most likely scenario is that Wilson got into the physical altercation with Brown where Wilson gets punched in the face. He now pulls out the gun, thinking it will discharge the threat and Brown will respect that he has his gun out. Brown charges at him anyway leaving Wilson feeling like he has no choice but to shoot him since he has his gun out already.

In that scenario it doesn't seem to really matter how hard the punch in the face was. The real issue was Wilson's decision to take out the gun in the first place, which did not have the desired effect on Brown, and in essense caused a dangerous situation to turn into a deadly one unnecessaily.
 
TBDeac said:
I think the most likely scenario is that Wilson got into the physical altercation with Brown where Wilson gets punched in the face. He now pulls out the gun, thinking it will discharge the threat and Brown will respect that he has his gun out. Brown charges at him anyway leaving Wilson feeling like he has no choice but to shoot him since he has his gun out already.

In that scenario it doesn't seem to really matter how hard the punch in the face was. The real issue was Wilson's decision to take out the gun in the first place, which did not have the desired effect on Brown, and in essense caused a dangerous situation to turn into a deadly one unnecessaily.
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Your avatar alongside this post is really something.
 
TBDeac said:
I think the most likely scenario is that Wilson got into the physical altercation with Brown where Wilson gets punched in the face. He now pulls out the gun, thinking it will discharge the threat and Brown will respect that he has his gun out. Brown charges at him anyway leaving Wilson feeling like he has no choice but to shoot him since he has his gun out already.

In that scenario it doesn't seem to really matter how hard the punch in the face was. The real issue was Wilson's decision to take out the gun in the first place, which did not have the desired effect on Brown, and in essense caused a dangerous situation to turn into a deadly one unnecessaily.
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And this goes back to the race discussion. In that situation, a white guy probably wouldn't think the cop would shoot him. The black guy would the cop is going to shoot and would try to defend himself by disarming the cop.
 
PhDeac said:
And this goes back to the race discussion. In that situation, a white guy probably wouldn't think the cop would shoot him. The black guy would the cop is going to shoot and would try to defend himself by disarming the cop.
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How many times have you been shot by a cop?
 
yeah I think a lot of the kid's reaction to this Barney Fife motherfucker hassling him about walking in the street is the history of railroading of blacks that he has known his whole life. Perhaps Brown was acting in self-defense and the average white person cannot conceive of that because they couldn't possible know the perception of police that these folks have.
 
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