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ESPN Slave Auction Controversy

How does that answer my question? You think your opinion makes you a better spokesperson for slaves than descendants of slaves?

It didn't occur to you that people who deal with the legacy of slavery would have a valid opinion.
 
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PhDeac said:
How does that answer my question? You think your opinion makes you a better spokesperson for slaves than descendants of slaves?
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You have yet to say why you think it's comparable in any way and I'm not saying I'm a better spokesperson, I'm just saying what is common sense. I agree the optics weren't great, but how in any real tangible way are the 2 comparable? You also don't have to have a certain skin color to appreciate the travesty of human justice and decency actual slaves went through and to compare that to this, I just don't think it's fair to them.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
You have yet to say why you think it's comparable in any way and I'm not saying I'm a better spokesperson, I'm just saying what is common sense. I agree the optics weren't great, but how in any real tangible way are the 2 comparable? You also don't have to have a certain skin color to appreciate the travesty of human justice and decency actual slaves went through and to compare that to this, I just don't think it's fair to them.
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Of course it's comparable -- it is literally white people auctioning off black people and putting their heads on sticks. Is it anywhere near as bad as actually slavery? Of course not, but that's not the point. Is it a big deal when we have a fucking Nazi President and nazis running people over with cars? Again, of course not, but that's not the point.
 
You've stated definitively that your opinion would be shared by slaves themselves and is "common sense." And there's no room any other opinion.

The ESPN auction borrows disturbing iconography from slave auctions. It's tone deaf in that it doesn't take into account how much images would make descendants of slaves feel.

I understand that you don't feel that way. That doesn't make the feelings of others invalid or not "common sense."
 
Shooshmoo said:
Of course it's comparable -- it is literally white people auctioning off black people and putting their heads on sticks. Is it anywhere near as bad as actually slavery? Of course not, but that's not the point. Is it a big deal when we have a fucking Nazi President and nazis running people over with cars? Again, of course not, but that's not the point.
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Well, in my opinion that is the point. It's not anywhere near as bad as actual slavery, in fact it's not like actual slavery at all. They're not auctioning off black people, they're auctioning off football players. As was mentioned, were some white players not auctioned off? But actually they weren't even auctioning off football players, they were auctioning off the stats of those football players to use in their league. So, how under any circumstance is that not only not near as bad as actual slavery, but like it in any way? Again, I just feel it's not fair to the actual slaves. We can certainly agree to disagree though.
 
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PhDeac said:
You've stated definitively that your opinion would be shared by slaves themselves and is "common sense." And there's no room any other opinion.

The ESPN auction borrows disturbing iconography from slave auctions. It's tone deaf in that it doesn't take into account how much images would make descendants of slaves feel.

I understand that you don't feel that way. That doesn't make the feelings of others invalid or not "common sense."
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I don't disagree it was poorly done, I just can't in any way make the comparison to what the actual slaves went through when they were auctioned off.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Well, in my opinion that is the point. It's not anywhere near as bad as actual slavery, in fact it's not like actual slavery at all. They're not auctioning off black people, they're auctioning off football players. As was mentioned, were some white players not auctioned off? But actually they were even auctioning off football players, they were auctioning off the stats of those football players to use in their league. So, how under any circumstance is that not only not near as bad as actual slavery, but like it in any way? Again, I just feel it's not fair to the actual slaves. We can certainly agree to disagree though.
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I'm trying to work through this bizarre position -- and as long as we are discussing Nazis, if Fox News dressed up some folks as Nazis and pretended to throw other people dressed up as Jewish people in the shower because they thought it was funny, would you think criticism of that would be unfair to Jewish people, even if Jewish people were offended by it? Is that your position? If so, is criticism only ok if the thing being criticized is just as bad as the bad thing it is being compared to?
 
liveanddiedeac said:
I don't disagree it was poorly done, I just can't in any way make the comparison to what the actual slaves went through when they were auctioned off.
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Well nobody is doing that. You created a straw man.
 
Shooshmoo said:
I'm trying to work through this bizarre position -- and as long as we are discussing Nazis, if Fox News dressed up some folks as Nazis and pretended to throw other people dressed up as Jewish people in the shower because they thought it was funny, would you think criticism of that would be unfair to Jewish people, even if Jewish people were offended by it? Is that your position? If so, is criticism only ok if the thing being criticized is just as bad as the bad thing it is being compared to?
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That's clearly not the same thing. I don't really agree with liveanddie, but your comparison would be more akin to someone defending a bunch of white guys auctioning off black athletes and forcing them to play football for their entertainment against their will.

Auctioning off the stats of players who are being paid and obviously want to play football is not the same. But the segment was definitely bad. At the very least don't create cut out heads on sticks and maybe add a little diversity to the fantasy buyers. But regardless this is should be a mea culpa and move on. And it's obvious neither liveanddie or ph are going to relent.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Honestly, while I can see the optics weren't good and you'd think someone at the 4 letter would see that. To me, it is an insult to those individuals that were actually auctioned off as slaves to compare a fantasy football draft to their ordeal in any way, shape or form.
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OFFS
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Yeah, multi-millionaire football players getting auctioned off as fantasy football players to individuals that have no control over them in any way, is comparable to actual people who were auctioned off as real slaves to individuals that controlled everything about them.
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God dammit. Stop. Just fucking stop.
 
Shooshmoo said:
I'm trying to work through this bizarre position -- and as long as we are discussing Nazis, if Fox News dressed up some folks as Nazis and pretended to throw other people dressed up as Jewish people in the shower because they thought it was funny, would you think criticism of that would be unfair to Jewish people, even if Jewish people were offended by it? Is that your position? If so, is criticism only ok if the thing being criticized is just as bad as the bad thing it is being compared to?
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So, you're comparing people dressed up as Nazi's physically throwing Jewish people in a shower, to people bidding on the stats of football player's? I could see the comparison if these football players were led out to a stage in chains, their physical stats read and then bid on. That is would be an reenactment, I don't think this fantasy draft auction resembled a real slave auction from what I've read about them.

I not trying to get in a pissing match with fellow board members that I respect, I just don't see the comparison here on many levels. That's my opinion, you're entitled to yours. I guess you're looking at it from the pure optics of it and I'm looking at the reality of it. The reality of it is the bidders are just buying the stats of football players to use in a fantasy league and in no way control or have anything to do with that individual. Where as in an actual slave auction, someone was buying someone from someone else to own and control them, which no one should have the right to do.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
You ducked mine and I think my 2nd sentence answered it perfectly.
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Well. You're an asshole. I should have read on before quoting the previous two comments you made.


You are so unaware of anybody else and what they have gone through and it is pathetic. Reading a book isn't enough. Talk to people that went through different experiences, understand their concerns and motivations, grasp their desires, and contemplate their fears.

Or don't comment on these things.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
You have yet to say why you think it's comparable in any way and I'm not saying I'm a better spokesperson, I'm just saying what is common sense. I agree the optics weren't great, but how in any real tangible way are the 2 comparable? You also don't have to have a certain skin color to appreciate the travesty of human justice and decency actual slaves went through and to compare that to this, I just don't think it's fair to them.
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No, but you do have to have a certain skin color in America to understand how that systematic oppression went down through the years and still impacts people with darker skin today in America. Or you at least have to try to understand the issue before you make such a blatantly false statement, you utter clown.

You're wrong. Stop.
 
OblongPickle said:
That's clearly not the same thing. I don't really agree with liveanddie, but your comparison would be more akin to someone defending a bunch of white guys auctioning off black athletes and forcing them to play football for their entertainment against their will.

Auctioning off the stats of players who are being paid and obviously want to play football is not the same. But the segment was definitely bad. At the very least don't create cut out heads on sticks and maybe add a little diversity to the fantasy buyers. But regardless this is should be a mea culpa and move on. And it's obvious neither liveanddie or ph are going to relent.
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I think you made the point I was trying to make better than I did. As I said, the optics weren't good, but I just think comparing to a slave auction was overboard.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
. It's not anywhere near as bad as actual slavery, in fact it's not like actual slavery at all.
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That isn't a fucking prize.

What in the literal fuck is wrong with you? "oh this isn't as bad as slavery, so we should allow it and not be offended by it. snowflakes."


I mean, what in the actual fuck?
 
OblongPickle said:
That's clearly not the same thing. I don't really agree with liveanddie, but your comparison would be more akin to someone defending a bunch of white guys auctioning off black athletes and forcing them to play football for their entertainment against their will.
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Has nothing to do with forcing -- no one is forced to do anything in my scenario (and the players in this place being auctioned off, I'm sure did not consent to this auction segment and probably would not have given their consent if asked). The point is in both scenarios they are doing something they think is harmless and non-offensive and people are offended by it -- liveanddie seems to think what they are doing cannot be criticized unless there is a direct comparison to the bad event and it must be as bad as the bad event or it is offensive to the people who suffered the bad event.
 
Hate to attack the source, but I deleted my Slate app after seeing this. The quality of their content has been declining for a long time, and this was the final straw. Was it kind of stupid? Yeah sure. Stupid in the way you should laugh and call it a bad segment. Was it racist? No, no it was not.
 
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