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Steve Forbes credibility watch

The unfortunate part is who would wake replace forbes with? Wake and the acc is no longer the draw that it was 30 years ago. Wakes target coach is always going to be the mid major guy moving up the ladder. Kind of like football.

Come next season, Wake hoops has one tourney appearance in 10 years and only 2 first round tourney wins in the last 20 years. Most of the kids being recruited don't think of wake as a basketball school They have never seen wake even good in their lifetimes. And with NIL being a main driver of recruiting going forward is wake going to ever be able to compete for top recruits anymore.
 
The max upside is probably the gonzaga type route. Coach up that next tier of hs players and get them to stay and build a program for 4 years. Mix in as many portal guys that you can. Guys moving up the ladder.

But turning over the whole roster with top portal guys can work for a uconn or other top destinations. I don't see that method ever working for a wake. They aren't going to get the top portal guys. Can you be anything but mediocre with a new lineup of second tier portal guys.
 
ironwill24 said:
Omg we sound like the biggest bunch of pussies there is as a fan base using all these excuses.

Nut the fuck up and fight through. Plan for injuries which every team has every year.

Ituka was never going to contribute even if healthy. The players you mention not being useful were all recruited by Forbes so if they aren't useful it's his fault.

Geez I get he's jolly and loveable but the amount of excuses we make for the guy is so fucking weak. Sometimes I wish I went to Alabama or Clemson where the fan base can't stand losing.
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I mean to be fair it's not a disdain for losing that makes Bama and clemson different than us, it's there bajillion alums and mouth breathing fans.
 
ralphkitleyrules said:
The max upside is probably the gonzaga type route. Coach up that next tier of hs players and get them to stay and build a program for 4 years. Mix in as many portal guys that you can. Guys moving up the ladder.

But turning over the whole roster with top portal guys can work for a uconn or other top destinations. I don't see that method ever working for a wake. They aren't going to get the top portal guys. Can you be anything but mediocre with a new lineup of second tier portal guys.
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Whether the from the portal or HS, unless you get top tier players then you have to do some developing. Hard to do with transfers or HS players that transfer out.
 
ralphkitleyrules said:
The unfortunate part is who would wake replace forbes with? Wake and the acc is no longer the draw that it was 30 years ago. Wakes target coach is always going to be the mid major guy moving up the ladder. Kind of like football.
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That is fine, but the issue is that those guys mostly don't work out, so they need to be on a short leash. You can't waste unnecessary years on them knowing that the success probability is low. Our last 3 hires (4 including Dino) have been unestablished, midmajor/assistant guys. Hiring them was generally okay. The problem was retaining Bzz, Manning, and now Forbes several years too long after it became apparent that they weren't the long-term solution. If we are hiring those types of unestablished coaches, which is a perfectly reasonable strategy, then we need to be prepared to blow through a few of them in relatively short timeframes (2-3 years each) until one hits. But we're closing in on 20 years with 4 of them, including Dino who was a quick oust.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
That is fine, but the issue is that those guys mostly don't work out, so they need to be on a short leash. You can't waste unnecessary years on them knowing that the success probability is low. Our last 3 hires (4 including Dino) have been unestablished, midmajor/assistant guys. Hiring them was generally okay. The problem was retaining Bzz, Manning, and now Forbes several years too long after it became apparent that they weren't the long-term solution. If we are hiring those types of unestablished coaches, which is a perfectly reasonable strategy, then we need to be prepared to blow through a few of them in relatively short timeframes (2-3 years each) until one hits. But we're closing in on 20 years with 4 of them, including Dino who was a quick oust.
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no

no

no

hiring [Redacted] was not in any way ok. That hire had a 0% chance of success the day it happened
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Our last 3 hires (4 including Dino) have been unestablished, midmajor/assistant guys. Hiring them was generally okay.
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I disagree with your perspective here. Forbes was a slam dunk hire for Wake. He was 130-43 as a D1 coach with likely(COVID) 2 NCAA tournament appearances and a conference COY when we hired him.

Your implication is that we should be hiring established high major coaches. In reality that just means hiring coaches who were previously fired from high major jobs. Why would that be preferable?
 
ralphkitleyrules said:
The unfortunate part is who would wake replace forbes with? Wake and the acc is no longer the draw that it was 30 years ago. Wakes target coach is always going to be the mid major guy moving up the ladder. Kind of like football.

Come next season, Wake hoops has one tourney appearance in 10 years and only 2 first round tourney wins in the last 20 years. Most of the kids being recruited don't think of wake as a basketball school They have never seen wake even good in their lifetimes. And with NIL being a main driver of recruiting going forward is wake going to ever be able to compete for top recruits anymore.
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I agree with this take. I think people are being unrealistic that Wake can land a big name coach or there will be a line out the door to take the job. The ACC is on its last legs and Wake could be regulated to a mid-major, whether it's in the ACC or in another conference, and no big coach is going to take a risk on that.

It has been 20 years since Wake made a sweet 16 and 14 years since it made the 2nd round of the tournament. If Forbes can't make any improvements over the next two years or so, sure, maybe it's time to move on, but Wake could find itself back in the bottom of the league if Forbes is canned and the wrong hire is made. I'd love to see Kelsey come back to Wake, but I suspect he only leaves Charleston for a bigger job.
 
greekdeac2011 said:
I think people are being unrealistic that Wake can land a big name coach or there will be a line out the door to take the job.
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greekdeac2011 said:
The ACC is on its last legs and Wake could be regulated to a mid-major, whether it's in the ACC or in another conference, and no big coach is going to take a risk on that.
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greekdeac2011 said:
If Forbes can't make any improvements over the next two years or so, sure, maybe it's time to move on,
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I don’t understand how these three statements are related. If Wake won’t find a better coach, and the ACC is breaking up, how do those two predicaments lead you to believing that Forbes needs two more seasons?
 
greekdeac2011 said:
If Forbes can't make any improvements over the next two years or so, sure, maybe it's time to move on, but Wake could find itself back in the bottom of the league if Forbes is canned and the wrong hire is made.
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Obviously that's the risk. But does that mean we should lean into timidity? Now seems like the precise wrong moment for that.

If anything, Wake's potential dive into ultimate irrelevancy, with our terrible last decade exacerbated by the conference's impending troubles, means that more than ever we have to get our basketball program thriving. It's basically now or never.

When Currie hired Forbes during the pandemic, we witnessed that surprise urgency. We all thought that marked a paradigm shift in how WF Athletics would operate. I'll be very curious to see if Currie continues to display that kind of urgency, or if he, like his predecessor, now feels tied to his hire because he initiated the extension.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I don’t understand how these three statements are related. If Wake won’t find a better coach, and the ACC is breaking up, how do those two predicaments lead you to believing that Forbes needs two more seasons?
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My point is, I don't think Forbes has been horrible enough to fire this year, and Wake is going to struggle to find an adequate replacement if it does fire him this year. The ACC is no longer the draw it once was for coaches to overlook Wake firing a coach who brought it back to somewhat relevancy from the dumpster fire it was when Manning left.
 
Wake needs to take a swing on a young, up and coming coach. If it doesn't work out, fine. Keep trying. How many MBB coaches have actually retired at Wake? Odom did not have his contract renewed, and Skip of course passed, but basically everyone ends up fired. That is not unique to Wake, but it should free the administration up to take a chance on a guy that we might have for 20+ years if it works.
 
Ball State Deac said:
Wake needs to take a swing on a young, up and coming coach. If it doesn't work out, fine. Keep trying. How many MBB coaches have actually retired at Wake? Odom did not have his contract renewed, and Skip of course passed, but basically everyone ends up fired. That is not unique to Wake, but it should free the administration up to take a chance on a guy that we might have for 20+ years if it works.
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so agree with this. Try to find the next Clawson of the bball world that is a proven track record of turning around programs and vibrant personality with a semblance of system. Bucky ball @ WF would be a great risk to take.
 
2&2 thinks hiring BZZ was okay. And that keeping Forbes is way worse.

Absolute fucking clown.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I disagree with your perspective here. Forbes was a slam dunk hire for Wake. He was 130-43 as a D1 coach with likely(COVID) 2 NCAA tournament appearances and a conference COY when we hired him.

Your implication is that we should be hiring established high major coaches. In reality that just means hiring coaches who were previously fired from high major jobs. Why would that be preferable?
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Forbes was a midmajor hire, I don't see how that is anything but accurate. He was not a proven winner at the high-major level, regardless of how he did at the midmajor level.

And no, that was not my implication. I explicitly said that hiring unestablished midmajor coaches is a reasonable strategy. My implication was that those guys need to be given a shorter leash because their success rate at the high major level is low. I have no problem with the Danny Manning hire. But no way in hell should he have been given 6 years. He should have been gone in 2-3. Same with Forbes. I have no problem giving him a shot. But it isn't working out, time to let him go. No way should we let him flounder for 6 years.

And there are other ways to get established high major coaches. We're paying a shit ton of money to proven losers who no longer coach here. How about we instead pay that to get a proven winner to come here?
 
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