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Steve Forbes credibility watch

In a 9 team ACC? I liked Odom. He was a good dude, a good coach and turned the program around in the 1990s. He landed Rodney, Randolph and Josh, 3 all time greats. He got lucky with Duncan. Over performed some years, underperformed in others. Hats off to him. But time to move the fuck along here. Today's game 4 (and the ACC) can't be competed to the ACC of 1991....
 
TheReff said:
Odom averaged 20 wins per season and made 7 straight NCAA tournies. After his first season never finished lower than 5th in ACC the next 11 seasons.
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Odom ball might not be exciting on O but almost always played solid D and rarely gave up easy points and solid fundamentally. You knew what you were getting most every game unlike our schizo play.
 
saltydeac said:
Odom ball might not be exciting on O but almost always played solid D and rarely gave up easy points and solid fundamentally. You knew what you were getting most every game unlike our schizo play.
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Childress, Duncan, Blucas, LaRue, Peral were very exciting on offense!
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Really difficult to compare ACC standings across eras, Odom was coaching in a 9 member conference.
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In my mind it’s not hard to compare going to NCAA for 7 straight years when we haven’t done it since. We can’t even get to semi-final Friday of ACCT
 
deacdixieboy said:
Keller was a 4-star recruit who had some major offers. His lack of improvement is, again, on the coaching staff. I refuse to believe that Clark, Canka, MMM, and Keller just all forgot how to play bball. They are young guys who need to be coached up.
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Honestly, he doesn’t strike me as that athletic and isn’t a great shooter.
 
Atlanta Deacon said:
I struggle with this. Forbes can coach up guys in the portal and turn them from mediocre to first team ACC players, but others seem to fall through the cracks.
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None of us have access to practices or any other efforts the staff may make to coach these guys up. As you say, some guys seem to explode with progress and really blossom while others regress or never get better. Since we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, there are multiple possible explanations. It is possible that some players are more coachable than others - or some have more room to grow, while others have already reached their potential. I feel certain the coaches are trying to coach these guys up - it is obviously in their interests to do so...
 
PhDeac said:
Ideally no Monsanto or Reid would have been the time to get Keller, Marsh, Marion, Canka, and Clark quality minutes so they’d be ready to contribute in conference play.
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Oh, many of them got quality minutes. They just weren’t ready to contribute in conference play. Which is a talent issue. Either have the potential but haven’t made the leap yet (which usually comes during the offseason, not mid season) or just don’t have the talent to make the leap at this level.
 
Haros said:
Oh, many of them got quality minutes. They just weren’t ready to contribute in conference play. Which is a talent issue. Either have the potential but haven’t made the leap yet (which usually comes during the offseason, not mid season) or just don’t have the talent to make the leap at this level.
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Canka, Keller, and Marsh need to transfer. Marion and Clark may be serviceable but not sold on them either.


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Deaconblue said:
Ituka getting injured. Marsh concussion impacted rotation and practices. Canka, Clark, 3M and Keller all not being useful is pretty surprising.

The Marsh concussion early in the season removed him as an option to fill in for Reid, which forced Carr into a lot of minutes at the five. That wore Carr down early and it took a while for him to recover.

If Ituka is healthy, he gets the backup PG minutes that Hunter and Cam had to play. That would have allowed them to play more minutes at the three in a smaller lineup. Also Boopie could have played some minutes as an off ball guard with Jao as the primary ball handler.
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Omg we sound like the biggest bunch of pussies there is as a fan base using all these excuses.

Nut the fuck up and fight through. Plan for injuries which every team has every year.

Ituka was never going to contribute even if healthy. The players you mention not being useful were all recruited by Forbes so if they aren't useful it's his fault.

Geez I get he's jolly and loveable but the amount of excuses we make for the guy is so fucking weak. Sometimes I wish I went to Alabama or Clemson where the fan base can't stand losing.
 
ironwill24 said:
Ituka was never going to contribute even if healthy. The players you mention not being useful were all recruited by Forbes so if they aren't useful it's his fault.
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That was not the reports from pre-season practices and the pre-season games/secret scrimmages. It was reported he was playing well both years and was expected to be a rotation guy. 15 minutes a game of a good ball handler/distributor would have helped a lot.
 
Complacent Deac said:
Yeah Forbes praised Clark and his defense yesterday. We saw months ago that Clark can defend.

Then he never played, until yesterday.
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Counterpoint: Clark had an offensive rating of 8. 8. Carter Whitt freshman year was 67. Canka 69 this year. Lucas Taylor 20 and 84 his two years.

One thing to remember: he had an injury his senior year of high school and didn’t really play. So he was behind both athletically and knowing how to play just coming into the season.

Only 29 minutes, but it looked awful most of them. His line for the entire season, some of the minutes against walk-ons not playing all-out was:

0 points, 0-8 shooting (his shot looks busted), 1 rebound, 1 assist, 2 blocks, 4 steals, 7.5 fouls committed per 40 (Efton was 4.7/40).

I know we are sensitive about practice dictating minutes after Mitch Griffis, but I have to assume he looked similar in our practices. And if that’s remotely close to true, I wouldn’t want him taking time from Sallis/Cam/Boopie during the season. That’s just not a guy who is ready to play.

And a guy I’m lukewarm on returning, but the whole injury thing and possibly coming back heathy plus his size makes me I guess slightly more optimistic on there possibly being something there relative to a few other guys that should probably just move on. Still, he’d have to improve a hell of a lot (particularly shooting, but really everything) just to get rotation bench minutes next year.
 
buckets said:
I think Forbes tries to put together the best team he can each season, with the focus and priority being on THAT season. I think that approach helped us quickly get out of ACC basement, but it is proving to not be a great model to consistently be a top 3-6 team in the ACC. With the portal and NIL, I think you can quickly go from bad to good or good to great with a baseline of a consistently developing roster. It's hard to jump from bad to great. But under Forbes, I feel like we've gone from "bad" after the dust settles on our roster turnover to "good" on admittedly really solid work in the portal to bring players in. But I think I need to see us go from "good" (which we might be if sallis, efton, boopie, and carr come back) to "great" with more portal additions.

If Forbes can't keep together and improve on an NIT roster where everyone is eligible again next season... then I think it's time to move on.
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I’m in half agreement. In 2022, he clearly tried to get the best team he could for that season. And it was pretty amazing to get from 175th with basically nothing noteworthy returning (Mucius, Williamson, Whitt is the full list) to a team that went 13-7 in the ACC and damn near made the tournament.

From there, he seemed to shift from grad transfers to guys with multiple years left (LaRavia was the exception in year 1 and it was a bit unlucky not to have him return).

8 transfers since then, 7 had 2-3 years of eligibility left - and listening to Forbes interviews over the last couple years, that has seemed intentional. Appleby the lone exception, and he grabbed him so as not to suck last year, so no issue with me on that one.

Laravia, Bobi, Monsanto injuries impacting three seasons, Williamson (23) injury, Carr (23) and Hildreth (24) getting hurt and being less effective the second half, Reid waiver. And seemingly whiffing on Whitt, Canka, Keller, Bradford. Maybe more. Now a guy that was a bench role player a year ago may be good enough to be drafted and leave early. Always many things, not just one. Some bad player evals, some settling on the best frosh we’ve been able to land. A lot his fault, also a lot not. It just seems like an abnormal number of items absent a coaching change for a program.

So from my perspective (understanding others may differ), it’s not been a lack of trying to build something more sustainable, it’s been more that we’ve been 1-2 guys short of very good each of the last couple of years despite the focus not being 100% on rebuilding for a specific season. And building it all apparently without our NIL being in place.

The results to date certainly leave us with questions yet to be answered, but I’m not at all confident that we’ve seen his ceiling and this year is just what he is. If we either a) get a season or two with continuity to see what it looks like; or b) he fails to keep the guys we are expecting he will and we continue to start over each year going forward - I think we will have a lot more answers either way to make a decision going forward.
 
DeaconiousHooz said:
or worse. . . we lost to GT and ND in the same week.

That squad would've beaten the brakes off of us. . . .
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Yes. For starters, Duncan would have Reid fouled out by half and then it's another 30+ night for him. Collapse 3 guys on Duncan.... he kicks out to Childress, LaRue or Peral.

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BirdinBama said:
I'm Forbes out all the way. And, once again, fuck Ron Wellman!
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We know
BirdinBama said:
So predictable. This is on Forbes for every reason you can think of....... Pull off the bandaid with one good tug, and let's get a fuckin coach!!!!!
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BirdinBama said:
"I'm at a loss" sounds like a fuckin LOSER!
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BirdinBama said:
Forbes ain't got it. Let the search for his successor begin. RIP the bandaid off now!
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BirdinBama said:
For crying out loud, Forbes, though likable, is a coaching buffoon! Currie, without balls, needs to grow some and fire the motherfucker!
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BirdinBama said:
"The powers that be" want this fucker for some more dead-ass seasons? Why?
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BirdinBama said:
He should be fired right after our first round loss at the ACC tournament.
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BirdinBama said:
The end of the season collapse was totally on Forbes. And, today, in arguably a win or forget it game, we came out uninspired. That's also totally on Forbes. If Currie has extended him to 2030, as has been rumored, then he needs to get out as well! And, BTW, fuck Ron Wellman!
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BirdinBama said:
Forbes really sucks. RIP off the bandaid now!
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