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Basketball Recruiting Megathread 1.0 has run its course

CMM and A. Washington both at the Wake/G-Webb game today. Btw, CMM is taller than 6-2. More like 6-3 or maybe 6-4.
 
We need some players. GW makes it even more obvious the state of the program.

We have got to get some talent in here.

2012 looks to be a solid program builder

2013 has to be 2 4* guys and 2014 a star.

We are not even close to being competitive. It is really sad.
 
We need to free up two or three scholarships to have available for the 2013 & 2014 classes.
 
WakeForestRanger said:
We need to free up two or three scholarships to have available for the 2013 & 2014 classes.
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Totally disagree. I don't even consider 2013 a key recruiting year. 2014 yes, but you generally don't bring in superstars the year afer a 6-man class. Our 2012 class has two legitimate frosh starters in Thomas and Codi. Plus three solid rotation guys with one likely project (washington). We'll only lose one guy off next year's team (CJ). Just don't see how 2013 is critical. We'll be very good if we pick up nobody in 2013.

Thomas is going to be a monster
 
jaybone said:
Totally disagree. I don't even consider 2013 a key recruiting year. 2014 yes, but you generally don't bring in superstars the year afer a 6-man class. Our 2012 class has two legitimate frosh starters in Thomas and Codi. Plus three solid rotation guys with one likely project (washington). We'll only lose one guy off next year's team (CJ). Just don't see how 2013 is critical. We'll be very good if we pick up nobody in 2013.

Thomas is going to be a monster
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Our most recent 5- and 6-man classes have been in 1997 (ROK and co.), 1998 (Songaila), 2002 (Eric, Justin, etc.), 2006 (Ish, LD, etc.), and 2010 (McKie, et al.)

In the classes immediately following those groups, we came up with Songaila, Josh Howard, CP3, James Johnson, and Jeff Teague. For the record, that's four first-round draft picks.

The 1997 group was not followed by a star, and their peak was the Butler game or the NIT title, as you prefer.

The 1998 group was followed by a star, and were a popped-out shoulder away from the Sweet 16, or better. They still managed to win our first tourney game since Duncan.

The 2002 group was followed by a star, and they put together a fantastic three-year stretch, led by Howard and Paul. However, when CP left and they no longer had star support, they finished last in the conference.

The 2006 group was followed by two stars, and tied a school record for wins behind their leadership, IIRC. When those stars left, they snuck in the tournament despite further star support from AFA. If he hadn't been there, they certainly wouldn't have made the tournament.

The 2010 class was not followed by a star and looks to be wasting their first two seasons in mediocrity.


So what's the lesson here? When a big, foundational class like our 2012 group has star support, they can do great things. When they don't, they typically stink up the joint, or maybe ascend to mediocrity. 2012 is absolutely a key recruiting year.
 
OldGoldBeard said:
Our most recent 5- and 6-man classes have been in 1997 (ROK and co.), 1998 (Songaila), 2002 (Eric, Justin, etc.), 2006 (Ish, LD, etc.), and 2010 (McKie, et al.)

In the classes immediately following those groups, we came up with Songaila, Josh Howard, CP3, James Johnson, and Jeff Teague. For the record, that's four first-round draft picks.

The 1997 group was not followed by a star, and their peak was the Butler game or the NIT title, as you prefer.

The 1998 group was followed by a star, and were a popped-out shoulder away from the Sweet 16, or better. They still managed to win our first tourney game since Duncan.

The 2002 group was followed by a star, and they put together a fantastic three-year stretch, led by Howard and Paul. However, when CP left and they no longer had star support, they finished last in the conference.

The 2006 group was followed by two stars, and tied a school record for wins behind their leadership, IIRC. When those stars left, they snuck in the tournament despite further star support from AFA. If he hadn't been there, they certainly wouldn't have made the tournament.

The 2010 class was not followed by a star and looks to be wasting their first two seasons in mediocrity.


So what's the lesson here? When a big, foundational class like our 2012 group has star support, they can do great things. When they don't, they typically stink up the joint, or maybe ascend to mediocrity. 2012 is absolutely a key recruiting year.
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How many Sweet 16's did that technique net us again?
 
Agreed. But if the "Big Class" HAS stars this really isnt the same situation. The latter of those classes mentioned had lots of attrition also. If it is a class full of 5 or 6 solid, ACC players then that drop off like WF saw after CP3 wont occur and the seasons after the "star" leaves will be much closer to a 2009 team than a 2010 team. IMO.
 
Just to expound a little...

Teams without a first-round pick (since 1998)
1998: 16-14 (NIT)
1999: 17-14 (NIT)
2006: 17-17 (NIT)
2007: 15-16 (none)
2011*: 8-24 (none)

Teams with a first-round pick:
2000: 22-14 (Fr. JHo, NIT champs)
2001: 19-11 (So. JHo, NCAA 1st)
2002: 21-13 (Jr. JHo, NCAA 2nd)
2003: 25-6 (Sr. JHo, NCAA 2nd)
2004: 21-10 (Fr. CP, S16)
2005: 27-6 (So. CP, R32)
2008: 17-13 (Fr. JT, JJ, none)
2009: 24-7 (So. JT/JJ, Fr. AFA, NCAA 1st)
2010: 20-11 (So. AFA, NCAA 2nd)

So, yes, we either need a star in 2013 or need someone in 2012 to far, far exceed their current ranking.



*High degree of certainty no one from that team will be going 1st round.
 
OldGoldBeard said:
Just to expound a little...

Teams without a first-round pick (since 1998)
1998: 16-14 (NIT)
1999: 17-14 (NIT)
2006: 17-17 (NIT)
2007: 15-16 (none)
2011*: 8-24 (none)

Teams with a first-round pick:
2000: 22-14 (Fr. JHo, NIT champs)
2001: 19-11 (So. JHo, NCAA 1st)
2002: 21-13 (Jr. JHo, NCAA 2nd)
2003: 25-6 (Sr. JHo, NCAA 2nd)
2004: 21-10 (Fr. CP, S16)
2005: 27-6 (So. CP, R32)
2008: 17-13 (Fr. JT, JJ, none)
2009: 24-7 (So. JT/JJ, Fr. AFA, NCAA 1st)
2010: 20-11 (So. AFA, NCAA 2nd)

So, yes, we either need a star in 2013 or need someone in 2012 to far, far exceed their current ranking.



*High degree of certainty no one from that team will be going 1st round.
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Josh Howard was what, the last pick of the first round? And 3 of the NCAA appearances depend on him for your logic?

To me, it sure looks like CPIII is the only player that truly supports your theory.
 
Yes, three appearances rely on us having a unanimous ACC POY, first-team All-American, first-round draft pick, NBA all-star caliber player.
 
jaybone said:
Totally disagree. I don't even consider 2013 a key recruiting year. 2014 yes, but you generally don't bring in superstars the year afer a 6-man class. Our 2012 class has two legitimate frosh starters in Thomas and Codi. Plus three solid rotation guys with one likely project (washington). We'll only lose one guy off next year's team (CJ). Just don't see how 2013 is critical. We'll be very good if we pick up nobody in 2013.

Thomas is going to be a monster
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The 2012 class looks like a solid class on paper, but it has as much potential to produce busts as it does legit ACC starters.

I think 2013 and and 2014 are both critical because our program needs an infusion of talent to begin to claw its way back towards the top of the league. Not to mention it's essential to have experienced talent in those classes to keep our program from falling completely back down into the dregs of the basketball world when this enormous 2012 class graduates.

We're having serious trouble putting weight on Green. That's a good indication that this project is not going to pan out.

Neither Chennault nor Fields are or are going to be ACC level guards and college basketball is a guard's game.
 
I agree that we need to continue to upgrade in our talent. Hopefully we can get as many of our top targets as possible. I think we will have more than 1 scholarship in 2013 based on how playing time will be laid out for some of our players.

Also, as a staff they need to be better talent evaluators. The number of highly ranked players that haven't worked out at Wake has been a real black mark on our program. Maybe it would be a little lucky if 1 or 2 of the 2012 guys exceeded their ranking, but it isn't that far-fetched for someone like CMM who came out of nowhere to #75 to outplay his ranking. Teague came out of nowhere to #58. Josh Howard was #125 in the 1999 RSCI.
 
OldGoldBeard said:
Yes, three appearances rely on us having a unanimous ACC POY, first-team All-American, first-round draft pick, NBA all-star caliber player.
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You're missing my point. I loved Josh and what he did for Wake. But he wasn't some highly ranked super all star can't miss recruit.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
I agree that we need to continue to upgrade in our talent. Hopefully we can get as many of our top targets as possible. I think we will have more than 1 scholarship in 2013 based on how playing time will be laid out for some of our players.

Also, as a staff they need to be better talent evaluators. The number of highly ranked players that haven't worked out at Wake has been a real black mark on our program. Maybe it would be a little lucky if 1 or 2 of the 2012 guys exceeded their ranking, but it isn't that far-fetched for someone like CMM who came out of nowhere to #75 to outplay his ranking. Teague came out of nowhere to #58. Josh Howard was #125 in the 1999 RSCI.
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Speaking on 2013, who are we targeting at this point and where do we stand with them?
 
From tidbits on this board I think that Anton Gill will go to UNC if offered, if not it will be down to Wake and State because he wants to play in the ACC.

Haven't heard any new info on Greg McClinton lately, but at one point we were his leader and he is a Winston product.

We just offered 4-star 2013 SG Davon Reed, but have no idea on his interest.

3-Star 2013 SG RJ Currington is another one to watch.

No shot at Meeks IMO, don't know of any other big men on the radar.
 
DCDeac said:
You're missing my point. I loved Josh and what he did for Wake. But he wasn't some highly ranked super all star can't miss recruit.
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If we had another scholarship available in that class we would have gotten David West to go along with Josh Howard.
 
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