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BBall Recruiting Thread 2k17-Chaundee Brown commits to WAKE! Brandon Randolph to AZ

Strickland33 said:
Why do you think that they're stupid?
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No one plays 40 mpg. It doesn't factor in fatigue or other factors. So those numbers have no chance at being accurate.

It's also impossible to weight stats against second stringers versus those against starters. Or against tired starters.
 
RJKarl said:
No one plays 40 mpg. It doesn't factor in fatigue or other factors. So those numbers have no chance at being accurate.

It's also impossible to weight stats against second stringers versus those against starters. Or against tired starters.
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I wasn't asking you. I was asking Doggus. I am well aware of your case against stats.
 
Just like your Hillary assertions, this one is wrong also. I'm not against stats, only ones that don't make sense.

Do you really think that subs will get the same numbers against starters that they do against subs?
 
RJKarl said:
Just like your Hillary assertions, this one is wrong also. I'm not against stats, only ones that don't make sense.

Do you really think that subs will get the same numbers against starters that they do against subs?
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Are you even listening? Who needs subs when we can play our starters for 40 mins! ;)
 
RJKarl said:
Just like your Hillary assertions, this one is wrong also. I'm not against stats, only ones that don't make sense.

Do you really think that subs will get the same numbers against starters that they do against subs?
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I'm well aware of your stance, RJ. Everybody on this board is. I'm interested in learning why Doggus finds them stupid. That's why I asked him and quoted him.

And, no I don't. We've been over this before, we don't agree, and I'm not interested in re-hashing it with you for 100th time.
 
Strick loves him some 40mpg adjusted stats. Might as well stop by his house and kick his dog while you're at it.
 
DCDeac said:
Strick loves him some 40mpg adjusted stats. Might as well stop by his house and kick his dog while you're at it.
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You mean you aren't going to score the same if you are covered by Manu as you would if you were covered by Kawhi?
 
RJKarl said:
You mean you aren't going to score the same if you are covered by Manu as you would if you were covered by Kawhi?
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How is this effect operationalized in the statistics that you do respect?

Per 40 minutes pace adjusted does just what it sets out to do - it adjusts for pace, which is helpful in terms of creating comparisons across contexts (which plenty of us - yourself included - try to do pretty frequently). It may also be used to set reasonable floors and ceilings on expected development.
 
Strickland33 said:
How is this effect operationalized in the statistics that you do respect?

Per 40 minutes pace adjusted does just what it sets out to do - it adjusts for pace, which is helpful in terms of creating comparisons across contexts (which plenty of us - yourself included - try to do pretty frequently). It may also be used to set reasonable floors and ceilings on expected development.
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I don't do projected anything. I don't think you ever use stats by subs equally to stats by starters. They aren't equal.

A guy may be very valuable coming off the bench to play balls to the walls for short spurts and not be able to play that way for starter's minutes. His energy may not be able to as high by playing more minutes. Thus, his numbers wouldn't translate as he tires.

Also, if a guy comes in when starters are out, it may be easier to get rebounds, get open shots or have more open court for breaks.

when you don't have to worry about fouling out or covering the best players, you can take more chances.

Also, your opponent's subs may not play D as well or a fluidly.

There are some things you can't invent stats to figure out. You don't need a stat for everything.
 
RJKarl said:
I don't do projected anything. I don't think you ever use stats by subs equally to stats by starters. They aren't equal.

A guy may be very valuable coming off the bench to play balls to the walls for short spurts and not be able to play that way for starter's minutes. His energy may not be able to as high by playing more minutes. Thus, his numbers wouldn't translate as he tires.

Also, if a guy comes in when starters are out, it may be easier to get rebounds, get open shots or have more open court for breaks.

when you don't have to worry about fouling out or covering the best players, you can take more chances.

Also, your opponent's subs may not play D as well or a fluidly.

There are some things you can't invent stats to figure out. You don't need a stat for everything.
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You didn't answer my question, RJ. How is the effect that you hypothesized above operationalized in the statistics that you do respect?
 
The stats I respect are documentable. They aren't hypothetical. They aren't invented.

I don't know how much clearer I can get.
 
RJ, which player would you rather have given similar scoring totals?

Player 1: 19 FGA, 7 FTA, 2 TOV, Team Pace 92.4 Usage 27%

Player 2: 19 FGA, 7 FTA, 2 TOV, Team Pace 87.8 Usage 30%
 
Strickland33 said:
I'm well aware of your stance, RJ. Everybody on this board is. I'm interested in learning why Doggus finds them stupid. That's why I asked him and quoted him.

And, no I don't. We've been over this before, we don't agree, and I'm not interested in re-hashing it with you for 100th time.
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next time stick to your initial game plan.......for all of us
 
DCDeac said:
RJ, which player would you rather have given similar scoring totals?

Player 1: 19 FGA, 7 FTA, 2 TOV, Team Pace 92.4 Usage 27%

Player 2: 19 FGA, 7 FTA, 2 TOV, Team Pace 87.8 Usage 30%
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Stats without context are useless. What kind of shots? What else do they do? Is the pace slowed because of defense? Who are his teammates? Is there a star on either team?

I never have liked these gotcha,parlor games. Asking about a player, via stats, in the abstract is pointless.
 
DCDeac said:
Strick loves him some 40mpg adjusted stats. Might as well stop by his house and kick his dog while you're at it.
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Kick his dog for a minute. Multiply the number of kicks by 40 and leave him a note telling him that's how many times you kicked his dog.
 
I'm all for advanced stats, but per-40 minute adjustments are not advanced stats and they are generally worthless.

Back to recruiting.
 
WFUWaldo said:
I'm all for advanced stats, but per-40 minute adjustments are not advanced stats and they are generally worthless.

Back to recruiting.
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I agree with you that they're not advanced stats, though obviously disagree with you as to their utility. Sports fans love to make comparisons using per-game statistics that do little to account for context (which makes most of these types of comparisons ridiculous).

Pace adjusted stats provide a little bit of that, even if the application is admittedly limited. I don't think that I've ever claimed otherwise.

The glaring lack of understanding of just "what" goes into the computation of advanced statistics in sports analytics is hilarious, but I'll take my own advice and keep it to recruiting.

ilovecarpet said:
RJ Hot Karl is back . . .



to derailing threads.
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My apologies for getting us off track, y'all. I'll do a comprehensive update of the first post tonight for your troubles.
 
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