Former Wake student takes girl out for lunch (and Houston is pissed)

[TexasDeac10]

I think that has much more to do with the difference between American and British drinking cultures than any real difference in student/teacher interactions.

Really? I realize there's a marked difference in the two drinking cultures, but on a typical undergraduate campus in America there's no shortage of students who will drink given any opportunity. So, I'm not sure how it would be hard for a prof who wants to drink to find students who want to drink while discussing class material.

 

[TownieDeac]

We drank in Spanish conversation class at Shorty's every Friday.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

I didn't know him well, but Will always seemed like a good dude. I hate shit like this.

He is a good guy, wth was he thinking?

 

[PhDeac]

Really? I realize there's a marked difference in the two drinking cultures, but on a typical undergraduate campus in America there's no shortage of students who will drink given any opportunity. So, I'm not sure how it would be hard for a prof who wants to drink to find students who want to drink while discussing class material.

Not only that, most undergrads would probably think it was really cool if their prof wanted to drink with them.

 

[PhDeac]

As middle school kid, you probably just weren't aware of the ugliness that teachers face.

 

[PhDeac]

Dismissive? Seriously? I know you like to jump on me for the hell of it, so go ahead if it makes you feel good.

I was making a simple point that your perspective as a middle school kid was completely different than your wife's perspective as a teacher. A teacher has a broader sense of everything that happens in a school whereas a student is limited to what they witness and hear about and care about. It's like the difference between watching a play and being backstage.

 

[wakephan09]

Really? I realize there's a marked difference in the two drinking cultures, but on a typical undergraduate campus in America there's no shortage of students who will drink given any opportunity. So, I'm not sure how it would be hard for a prof who wants to drink to find students who want to drink while discussing class material.

Not only that, most undergrads would probably think it was really cool if their prof wanted to drink with them.

Exactly my point: it is the American drinking culture - that is, (in general) do it in your own home or behind closed doors - that prevents this scenario from ever being socially acceptable on a larger scale.

 

[wakephan09]

So, to recapitulate, the reason that professors don't often drink with their students (in my opinion), has less to do with the differences in the way that professors interact with students in America versus the UK and more with the way that drinking is or is not identified as a socially acceptable activity.

 

[EatLeadCommie]

What a dumbass.

 

[bym051d]

I hope he took her somewhere nice.

"And how would the lady like her 'chicken fingers' prepared?"

 

[DownEastDeac]

An example of how things have changed over the years:
When I was in middle school (early 70's) we hd a class tought by one of the coaches/PE teachers, and to say the least some of us boys were pretty disruptive (stupid/juvenille stuff like fart pillows and spit balls). The teacher said that the next one of us who disrupts the class is getting a paddling from "Old Sam", a wooden paddle that he actually had hanging on the wall (imagine that today). Later that week one of us (a black kid who was a very good basketball player, musician & student; went on to become student body president of our high school) fired a wad of paper at the trash can from his desk while the teacher was at the board (great shot over a few rows of heads; drained it). So the teacher tells him "great shot, let's see how you do under pressure. Take 5 more shots, and for every one you miss you get a lick from Old Sam". I don't recall if he even made one, but sure enough he had to bend over and get popped pretty good in front of the class by Old Sam. And that was the end of the story.
Today I'm against corporal punishment in schools for various reasons, but at the time it seemed logical and appropriate. Today not only would you not strike a child, a white teacher hitting and also publicly embarrasing a black student would be grounds for major media attention and lawsuits (by the way, Sam beat plenty of white asses in its day too). Summary: student misbehavior back in the day was much milder by today's standards, punishment was swifter and harsher, and the parents didn't go running to the principal, newspaper or courts when their precious child was not treated "fairly". And a lot of the blame for how it has changed rests not as much with today's kids as it does with the parents, who by the way are of my generation. I'll be the first to admit that in many ways we we dropped the ball in raising our kids to be responsible for their own actions and to understand the consequences of bad behavior. The standard party line among parents of my youth was "you get in trouble at school, the punishment will be twice as bad when you get home", and it was. Seems like a quaint idea today.

 

[HeavyPetter]

What a dumbass.

 

[DistrictDeacon]

How much of the fault for this kind of thing falls on the lack of training with those kinds of ultimatums?

Well when you only have 6 weeks to teach someone how to be a teacher, you can't cover everything.

 

[MBDeac08]

Did not expect to see a fraternity bro in the news for this. Will is a good guy, a bit goofy, but serious when need be. Surprised to see him make a mistake like this (which I guess is what people always say when they know the teacher involved).

I wouldn't be surprised if the mom thinks he should be fired, but you can't hand out blanket punishments for these kinds of things. This doesn't compare to other teacher news stories and only became a story because of who his dad is. While what he did was stupid, it did no harm to the child. While I would not be happy with just any teacher taking my kid somewhere, I would trust most of the ones I work with with my kids.

It's a bad move to take kids anywhere for the obvious reasons already mentioned, but also for the liability issues. I have to fill out a ton of paperwork and permission forms to transport any kids in my own car; if I get in a wreck then my school is completely absolved of anything in the situation. We are strongly encouraged to take kids on a bus, no matter how far and how many of them there are. Then if something happens, we know the kids are safer and there is no personal liability on me (unless I caused the wreck).

 

[DeaconCav06]

A professor here had some controversy surrounding his tenure vote and the big issue was that he was "too close to his students". He likes to hang out with students and drink. I think he's a cool guy.

 

[DeacHoops]

i'm not going to get into it again with deacfreak07 and others who think that adults should never, ever be alone with students. but to me the biggest issue in this situation is that he didn't ask permission from anybody. i personally think it's great for teachers/counselors/other adults to build strong relationships with kids. but to not tell/ask anybody first was really dumb.

 

[RacerDeac]

Really? I realize there's a marked difference in the two drinking cultures, but on a typical undergraduate campus in America there's no shortage of students who will drink given any opportunity. So, I'm not sure how it would be hard for a prof who wants to drink to find students who want to drink while discussing class material.

I still think the culture very much plays into it. I see drinking with a professor as something more like sipping a craft beer or bourbon in a small bar, which isn't exactly the drinking culture I remember from my days at Wake. On the other hand, it was very much the drinking culture my wife experienced while in school in England.

I don't really see professors being into cracking open a case of Natty light or downing a few shots of cheap flavored vodka while discussing the finer points of math or literature.

 

[Baconwfu]

I still think the culture very much plays into it. I see drinking with a professor as something more like sipping a craft beer or bourbon in a small bar, which isn't exactly the drinking culture I remember from my days at Wake. On the other hand, it was very much the drinking culture my wife experienced while in school in England.

I don't really see professors being into cracking open a case of Natty light or downing a few shots of cheap flavored vodka while discussing the finer points of math or literature.

I don't disagree with anything you said, except the possible assertion that you may or may not have been making about english drinking culture. English people, culture, has one of the biggest binge drinking problems anywhere. Obviously there are people who don't, but in my experience British college students are worse than American college students. The only difference may be that since the drinking age is lower, British students can casually and openly drink during the day (but still get blacked out at night) whereas most American college students can't do that so they only drink behind closed doors and get fudged up.

 

[WakeGal]

Teachers are already over-trained to the point where their ability to effectively teach their classes is severely impacted.

To save money, virtually all states have moved away from paid Saturday training days and now require that teachers spend their planning periods (when they should be grading papers, lesson planning, etc.) in training/school administrative meetings. Most teachers in NC are now required to do their grading and lesson planning at home (anywhere from 10-20 hours a week).

I'm not singling you out, Gal, because a ton of people have the "let's just give them more training mentality." I think it's part of how we got to where teachers are today.

There comes a point where we have to shift the burden back on society and shared responsibility to make it easier for teachers to do their job. Everyone is all about stepping up to the plate to help teachers, but when push comes to shove, people let fear rule their lives.

I worked in a school as admin for a few years. It largely depends on the school as to the training. Where I was, there was zero training. The training consisted on how to use the technology and how to handle parents, but not on social media and how to behave.

 

[rjequalsmj]

Honestly, I think it has almost nothing to do with drinking culture and everything to do with the difference in drinking age. In almost any college course in the US there are going to be underage kids, so in that situation the prof is providing alcohol to underage students which is illegal and the liability surrounding that for the prof and the school is too great. My mom said when she was in college in the 70s they used to drink with professors all the time. My sister also went to a small hippie school and she often drank with profs as well.