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Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon - (and beyond) Discussion (spoilers allowed)

DeacHead said:
We have no reason to believe she finished reading the entry about Rhaegar.. We don't know whether the text mentioned anyone else or not. What we do know is that "The high septon Maynard, he recorded everything" and that concurrent with the annulment, "he married her to someone else at the same time in a secret ceremony in Dorne." The "he" here being Maynard, who performed both the annulment and the marriage, so he knows all the involved parties. Given that they make an effort to show Maynard was so fastidious, I'm willing to bet there are very significant details that Gilly didn't get to say aloud because Sam paid no attention to her and was solely focused on his own issues.
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Sure. Maybe they need up packing that book

Though the pieces are obviously there for someone to figure out.
 
TheTwinAndreBen said:
I think they all die except for Jon, and then Jon is rescued either by Dany or Raisin Nut Bran.
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I predict Jorah dies and then they use zombie him as the proof for Dany/Cersei. Tormund/Beric/Thoros don’t make it either. Hound v Mountain has to happen at some point right??
 
DeacHead said:
We have no reason to believe she finished reading the entry about Rhaegar.. We don't know whether the text mentioned anyone else or not. What we do know is that "The high septon Maynard, he recorded everything" and that concurrent with the annulment, "he married her to someone else at the same time in a secret ceremony in Dorne." The "he" here being Maynard, who performed both the annulment and the marriage, so he knows all the involved parties. Given that they make an effort to show Maynard was so fastidious, I'm willing to bet there are very significant details that Gilly didn't get to say aloud because Sam paid no attention to her and was solely focused on his own issues.
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That very well may be. Or maybe he decided to log another shit at that moment and forgot to add details.
 
I dont think it'll be that traumatic of a loss solely because a lot of these people have loose ends that should be tied up elsewhere:

  • Jon - going to survive, easiest call
  • Davos - not around, only dies if something really bad happens (wall/east watch blown up)
  • Mountain - gotta be Clegane Bowl. He is either going to die to his bro or kill him.
  • Tormund - Expendable but I'll say he survives as he'll probably play a part later during the actual war since he's head of East Watch
  • Beric - Might die but won't stay dead if Thoros is around. Since he sacrificed himself for LSH in the books, potentially he gives up his life for someone else (the Hound?). Someone had an idea that The Hound eventually fights The Mountain with the Hound losing but Beric has Thoros sacrifice himself to save the Hound, who then kills the Mountain. It'd be a pretty nice full circle with the Brotherhood/Hound and both Cleganes being brought back to life.
  • Thoros - Most expendable of the three Brotherhood guys and could die to make Beric vulnerable but if you find the Clegane Bowl idea feasible, he'd likely survive for it to occur.
  • Gendry - Expendable and almost a too obvious fan favorite reintroduced just to take one for the team. But there seems to be something more between Jon & him so I'll lean he survives.
  • Jorah - He seems to have 19 lives and is well experienced but his death would be a huge blow to Dany and was seemingly setup as such when he was leaving and got similar affection as Jon did from Dany. Plus there could be symmetry in his death and his father's death - both died north of the Wall. It'd be a sorta re-connection for the strained relationship that occurred when Jorah fled Westeros. So I too say at least Jorah dies.
 
tigerswood said:
Yeah no chance she ever has the kid. It's either a ploy, or she dies beforehand. Who is going to save the dudes north of the wall next week? The obvious thought is Dany - but I think Bran could be involved somehow (warg into dragon??).
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Not saying it's not true, but people have been huge on Bran warging into a dragon all because of the "You'll never walk again, but you WILL fly" comment from the Three Eyed Raven. I honestly think he was just referencing Bran becoming the T.E.R., which flies. But Bran did see visions from the perspective of a dragon flying over KL, so maybe he could. But I highly doubt it will be next week if he does.

GaDeac said:
There is no united seven kingdoms right now, so there is no true heir such as you are thinking.

I think a better question is going to be how is Dany going to react when she realizes she isn't the next up from the Targaryen line. Her whole purpose has been becoming queen of the seven kingdoms and regaining her family's throne. What happens when she realizes that regaining her family's throne may mean she isn't the queen of the seven kingdoms?
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Easy...marry Jon, consolidate their claim, just like Aegon VI intended. (Rhaegar's presumed dead infant son whom Varys swapped out in the books, but hasn't been in the show).

deaconson said:
think some are a little confused. the plan is not capturing a white walker. they want a zombie. jon said they brought a dead body south of the wall and it still turned into a zombie. agree that marching into an army and capturing one sounds... difficult.

so bran is going to say jon is a targ and the rightful ruler. he won't believe it until sam remembers and looks for the confirmation.

if dani brings a dragon to meet with cersei and the hidden super crossbows whip out and fill it full of bolts i'll be annoyed. i'll also be annoyed if dani flies over the wall and saves jon. they need something better than that.
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Also known as a wight, w-i-g-h-t. In the post episode breakdown I believe they made mention of the fact that the first wight Jon saw (the one brought down from beyond the wall) was already dying/decomposing when it arrived at the Night's Watch and his arm fell off (maybe was chopped off, that's been a few years now). Perhaps this was due to the temperature difference from the beginning of the Series to now, unsure. Being able to capture one and transport it to KL may be asking a lot. Though they do have the Westeros Hyperloop available, so they could get there super speedy.

I too think it will be one of the 7 (my guess Jorah) that ventured beyond the wall that ends up becoming proof of the Army Of The Dead because that seems like the easiest way to obtain one. (For example: Jorah sacrifices himself and let's the group tie him up before being killed and drug back through the Wall). Besides, Jorah's reunion/goodbye seemed too sweet for it to not be the final meeting/final farewell between him and Dany. BUT that brings up further issues, because only White Walkers can reanimate the dead. So if Jon and the 7 use one of their own and the Night King sees it, he may catch on to the plan and refuse to reanimate them. That's going to be interesting to see how that plays out.

I think it could potentially also be Benjen Stark, but he has said he can't travel past the wall. Though that seems odd considering the whole Army is going South of the Wall soon.

EatLeadCommie said:
She mentioned Rhaegar because she stumbled over the pronunciation of the name. It did not say who he chose to marry, though. I think it was something like, "So he could marry another."
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DeacHead said:
We have no reason to believe she finished reading the entry about Rhaegar.. We don't know whether the text mentioned anyone else or not. What we do know is that "The high septon Maynard, he recorded everything" and that concurrent with the annulment, "he married her to someone else at the same time in a secret ceremony in Dorne." The "he" here being Maynard, who performed both the annulment and the marriage, so he knows all the involved parties. Given that they make an effort to show Maynard was so fastidious, I'm willing to bet there are very significant details that Gilly didn't get to say aloud because Sam paid no attention to her and was solely focused on his own issues.
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This was mentioned, but she said "Maynard issued an annulment to Prince Rhaegar and then remarried him at the same time at a secret ceremony in Dorne. (aka The Tower of Joy?)" I think it's silly to even argue or hold out that this wasn't pointing to Jon being the true Targaryen heir. Talking about "not mentioning other names" or whatever is dumb. This is absolutely why that scene was put in, and it is 100% fact that Jon was a legitimized son and rightful heir to Prince Rhaegar, House Targaryen and the Iron Throne at the time of the sack of King's Landing. Now when everyone in Westeros finds that out, that is another story completely and up for guesses.

ChaosDeac said:
Maybe the red shirts brought some dragon glass on their sled but outside of the flaming swords and Jon's valyrian sword, the other main cast members have their original weaponry without any modifications, which won't do anything against their opponents. So yeah, this is not going to go well if they run into a big group.
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They wouldn't go out there with just regular swords, especially after all the dragonglass mining. They've got at least daggers in their belts.

[/QUOTE]
 
OblongPickle said:
This was mentioned, but she said "Maynard issued an annulment to Prince Rhaegar and then remarried him at the same time at a secret ceremony in Dorne. (aka The Tower of Joy?)" I think it's silly to even argue or hold out that this wasn't pointing to Jon being the true Targaryen heir. Talking about "not mentioning other names" or whatever is dumb. This is absolutely why that scene was put in, and it is 100% fact that Jon was a legitimized son and rightful heir to Prince Rhaegar, House Targaryen and the Iron Throne at the time of the sack of King's Landing. Now when everyone in Westeros finds that out, that is another story completely and up for guesses.
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Oh it was certainly put in there for a reason and-- at least for the viewer-- to make it even more obvious as to Jon's origins. I was just pointing out that we didn't necessarily have any indication the entry contained more details. Probably did based on what she said prior to reading it, but I found it odd that the part she actually read didn't name the person to whom he was married.
 
ChaosDeac said:
Maybe the red shirts brought some dragon glass on their sled but outside of the flaming swords and Jon's valyrian sword, the other main cast members have their original weaponry without any modifications, which won't do anything against their opponents. So yeah, this is not going to go well if they run into a big group.
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they had to have brought dragon glass. it would be monumentally stupid not too.

beric can light his sword on fire as well.
 
OblongPickle said:
Also known as a wight, w-i-g-h-t.


This was mentioned, but she said "Maynard issued an annulment to Prince Rhaegar and then remarried him at the same time at a secret ceremony in Dorne. (aka The Tower of Joy?)" I think it's silly to even argue or hold out that this wasn't pointing to Jon being the true Targaryen heir. Talking about "not mentioning other names" or whatever is dumb. This is absolutely why that scene was put in, and it is 100% fact that Jon was a legitimized son and rightful heir to Prince Rhaegar, House Targaryen and the Iron Throne at the time of the sack of King's Landing. Now when everyone in Westeros finds that out, that is another story completely and up for guesses.
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[/QUOTE]

someone mentioned that they were going to get a white walker. i answered that person specifically.


everyone agrees with your second point. we all know it was a quick drop to show there is more evidence of jon being a targ than just bran's vision (and the dragon liking him). no one was arguing they were referencing lyanna and therefore jon. just saying sam did not catch the reference. yet.
 
OblongPickle said:
I too think it will be one of the 7 (my guess Jorah) that ventured beyond the wall that ends up becoming proof of the Army Of The Dead because that seems like the easiest way to obtain one. (For example: Jorah sacrifices himself and let's the group tie him up before being killed and drug back through the Wall). Besides, Jorah's reunion/goodbye seemed too sweet for it to not be the final meeting/final farewell between him and Dany. BUT that brings up further issues, because only White Walkers can reanimate the dead. So if Jon and the 7 use one of their own and the Night King sees it, he may catch on to the plan and refuse to reanimate them. That's going to be interesting to see how that plays out.
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I think I agree with this, but seems like a waste for it to be Jorah right after he is cured (agreed on the goodbye being too sweet though). Hoping it is Beric Dondarrion sacrificing himself -- he says I've already come back x times, why not one more, or something like that.
 
If they are going to kings landing (Which btw this whole plan is fucking hella stupid, just burn KL, drain the swamp, and then fight the dead), it would make sense for the hound to be the zombie they drag back and then it is zombie hound vs Mountain for the Clegaannneeee Booooowl.
 
TheTwinAndreBen said:
If they are going to kings landing (Which btw this whole plan is fucking hella stupid, just burn KL, drain the swamp, and then fight the dead), it would make sense for the hound to be the zombie they drag back and then it is zombie hound vs Mountain for the Clegaannneeee Booooowl.
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Ya I lean towards Beric or Hound being the ones that die
 
There are only 2 ways (not mutually exclusive) in which this terrible plan makes sense from the perspective of someone running the show:

1- As mentioned a few times above, one of the guys on the trip "volunteers" to be killed and taken back to KL. Jorah and/or the Hound make the most sense.
2- Bringing one of the army of the dead back to KL leads to a "zombie outbreak" there and accelerates the story a bit (instead of waiting for the entire army to march south).
 
I lean towards beric dying. Mostly not ready for hound to go. I think they want some mileage out of the bastard bros (Jon and gendry). Also lean towards mormont taking the black as his father wanted. He'll be pretty salty after the kaleesee rides jons dragon.
 
I don't mind the rushed pace of the season cheating us of all the "4 hours on a ship" scenes we might have gotten in earlier seasons, but I do think the only reason bringing a wight back to Kings Landing sounds kinda dumb is because they blew through all the reasons too quickly. No time to lose a battle to the dead making it clear they have to have the Lannister army, no time to embellish the idea that Tyrion and Jamie will overcome their momentary differences of the meetup scene to try to convince Cersei to fight, etc.

There's a sensible path there but not one that can be constructed in 6 minutes of screen time.
 
DCDeac said:
I don't mind the rushed pace of the season cheating us of all the "4 hours on a ship" scenes we might have gotten in earlier seasons, but I do think the only reason bringing a wight back to Kings Landing sounds kinda dumb is because they blew through all the reasons too quickly. No time to lose a battle to the dead making it clear they have to have the Lannister army, no time to embellish the idea that Tyrion and Jamie will overcome their momentary differences of the meetup scene to try to convince Cersei to fight, etc.

There's a sensible path there but not one that can be constructed in 6 minutes of screen time.
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100%. Just posted this somewhere else but my problem with the season so far is it feels like the scenes are being constructed in service of end points of plots. We want to get to A B & C by the end of the year, so we need to have scenes D E & F. In the past, the show felt like it was about D E & F. Now those scenes are truncated. We need Arya and Sansa to be at odds, but we don't have time to spend on it, so lets try to do it in three scenes. We need to get north of the wall, lets have a 90 second Jaime/Tyrion scene that should've been 8 minutes. We want to send Jorah there, lets get him cured and introduce him to Dany and ship him back off in the very same episode (while completely whiffing on the great potential of Jorah sharing with Jon and Dany that Sam cured him; for Jon, it would have one meaning & for Dany it would have potentially presented a moral issue right after she roasted Sam's family alive). It's my favorite show on TV...I just think they're missing the point on some of the legwork that needs to be done to organically drive plot & conflict this year.
 
Eagles_Legendz said:
100%. Just posted this somewhere else but my problem with the season so far is it feels like the scenes are being constructed in service of end points of plots. We want to get to A B & C by the end of the year, so we need to have scenes D E & F. In the past, the show felt like it was about D E & F. Now those scenes are truncated. We need Arya and Sansa to be at odds, but we don't have time to spend on it, so lets try to do it in three scenes. We need to get north of the wall, lets have a 90 second Jaime/Tyrion scene that should've been 8 minutes. We want to send Jorah there, lets get him cured and introduce him to Dany and ship him back off in the very same episode (while completely whiffing on the great potential of Jorah sharing with Jon and Dany that Sam cured him; for Jon, it would have one meaning & for Dany it would have potentially presented a moral issue right after she roasted Sam's family alive). It's my favorite show on TV...I just think they're missing the point on some of the legwork that needs to be done to organically drive plot & conflict this year.
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Also thought this. Seemed like a huge whiff, especially with Sam apparently heading back to Castle Black/having a large role in the future.
 
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