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Grading Ron Wellman

Liquid Karma said:
I think he gets a serious bump in his grade for the improvements to Groves, buying Ernie Shore, the new golf practice center, etc.

I also think his grade should be lowered significantly more for the [Redacted] hire. He absolutely crippled the flagship sport for at least half a decade with that move.
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I agree he gets a bump for improvements to stadiums/expanding Wake's physical footprint as far as athletic facilities and complexes. As I said, I agree with a lot of what Jaybone said as far as methodology. This article has a lot of good research and is a good starting point for the Ron Wellman discussion.
 
Deacon2002 said:
Agree with all of this...also think the [Redacted] hiring fiasco has and will hurt fundraising until a change is made and people are confident in the new choice...
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It would be interesting to hear how fundraising has gone since the Coach [Redacted] hiring.
 
Well I've heard that fundraising has gone up but I don't really trust that source for the most reliable/unbiased information haha.
 
Liquid Karma said:
I think he gets a serious bump in his grade for the improvements to Groves, buying Ernie Shore, the new golf practice center, etc.

I also think his grade should be lowered significantly more for the [Redacted] hire. He absolutely crippled the flagship sport for at least half a decade with that move.
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the worst part of his decision is that he looked at the resume and on day one he said (paraphrase) that he went with his gut. despite all evidence to the contrary he went with his gut. it truly is astounding.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Well I've heard that fundraising has gone up but I don't really trust that source for the most reliable/unbiased information haha.
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Also have to look at whether it has gone up relative to '09 and '10 (two of the worst economic years in recent history) or relative to where it's historically been and if goals that are set at the beginning of the year are being hit...

We know what has happened to basketball ticket sales..
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
This guy could be 40, we have no idea. That's my point about calling him a "boy".

Plus he says this in the article:

"Lastly, I would like to say that this is a rough look at Wellman's time at Wake Forest. There are more ins and outs of the world of college athletics than most of us can fathom. Indeed, I mentioned in some of the notes that the statistics given do not necessarily accurately depict the program's arc under the coach. I have tried to point out the most egregious examples of this."

He doesn't claim to have THE answer about Ron Wellman's tenure at Wake. It's just a way to look at it.

I have no problem with criticizing content or research at all, but to take this article and then call him "a boy" is clearly an immature response. I said that your points have merit and you're entitled to your own opinion, but the usage of "boy" is condescending and you know that.
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Okay then. It's sophomoric. Is that better? If you are going to write an article, be it for a blog or a journal or whatever, and your premise is, 'I am going to delve into the hires of our AD and give grades and then I'm going to grade the man on his overall job, but keep in mind that this is really rough and there is no way to grade the man because of all the ins and outs ...' then what is the point?

Average to good articles lay out an opinion, provide facts and factors to support that opinion, and then conclude with future projections or questions as to where we go or what have you. Average to good articles don't lay out an opinion, provide a rough spreadsheet used to sketch out the opinion, and then conclude that the opinion is based on wisps of incomplete information.

Honestly, just click the link to the article when you load ogboards.com if you want a blueprint.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Not sure why he isn't "responsible" for what he writes. People have been debating over here for a year to review the coaching hires by Ron Wellman, and this is exactly what he did, all the while compiling a way to look at it that is more than just randomly giving a C- or an A-.

ETA: This also includes a LOT of research, so it's not like he is trotting out irresponsible statements that are not facts.

I'm more than sure that the writer could respond to his piece if he wanted to over here and your fish swimming in the ocean analogy is so stupid that I don't know where to begin. You have a right to an opinion, and can certainly share it, but you are pretty far off on this one, especially calling into question his maturity for writing a piece that was prefaced and concluded with statements that he cannot even begin to understand the intricacies of what Ron Wellman has to do.
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Then why bother?

I get why you are defending it, but it sort of undercuts your mission over there on the blog. Unless quality isn't part of your mission. Read your review of our running backs and then re-read that "piece."

Facilities is pretty easy to put together. Compliance too. Compare Wake compliance infractions over the last 12 years to everyone else in the ACC. Frankly, so are our coaching records. I don't get the "LOT of research" defense.
 
jaybone said:
Then why bother?

I get why you are defending it, but it sort of undercuts your mission over there on the blog. Unless quality isn't part of your mission. Read your review of our running backs and then re-read that "piece."

Facilities is pretty easy to put together. Compliance too. Compare Wake compliance infractions over the last 12 years to everyone else in the ACC. Frankly, so are our coaching records. I don't get the "LOT of research" defense.
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You don't think it took time to find all the coaching hires and write a pretty in-depth article analyzing each hire over the past 20 years?
 
Stan Gable said:
Is it possible for you to not be a complete dick?
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Based on my own experiences trying to access media guides/information online for Wake Forest it takes both time and research to complete that article. Whether or not it was "well-written" is up for debate, the time/research factor (which I consider to be the same thing really), is not.
 
Liquid Karma said:
I think he gets a serious bump in his grade for the improvements to Groves, buying Ernie Shore, the new golf practice center, etc.

I also think his grade should be lowered significantly more for the [Redacted] hire. He absolutely crippled the flagship sport for at least half a decade with that move.
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At least. It's looking more and more akin to a self-imposed death penalty.
 
wfumike02 said:
At least. It's looking more and more akin to a self-imposed death penalty.
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That's an interesting question. Which program will recover quicker, Wake hoops after Buzzdick or PSU football after JoePa? We have a 2 year head start on them, so it'll be interesting to see.
 
The job of an AD is to get programs moving in a positive direction for the long-term. Fans and alums want success today. Therefore, there is inherent friction between the two.

I think the football program for the most part is maximizing its potential when you consider facilities, money, etc.... Players want 7+ wins and a bowl and are excited about the upcoming season as are fans because if the cards fall right, we could play a game that - if we win - we go to the ACC championship (last year it was the Clemson game). But if you asked all 80+ Alabama scholly athletes, an 8 win season would be an abomination. So ... Wellman has to factor what our ceiling is within the context of our money our Div 1 competitors money, so forth and so on. But there is excitement for the program both within it and from the fan base, so ...

So essentially football success does not equal national championship. That would be an interesting question to pose to Wellman and try and get him to go beyond the standard response which is likely, "we always are trying to win national championships ..."

Basketball is a different story due to our history and tradition, our conference, the number of schollys compared to football, all of it. I find it fascinating that Prosser established a brand of basketball that was fun to watch - and I know for a fact that people around the country not associated with Wake were talking about Wake hoops - and generated amazing excitement from within the program, the students, and alumni. And then Prosser reached just a little bit higher (Oden, Conley, and Cook), and from there things started to unravel and we were not able to sustain our brand. Maybe Wellman regrets the ever charming Prosser from convincing him that going after likely one and doners (Oden) and two and doners (Cook and Conley) was the right way to go after hitting #1 with big E and Levy and CP3 and Gray, etc... Don't know, but it would be interesting to ask Wellman that.

There has been all these changes with conference affiliations, money, third tier rights, infractions. infractions uncovered by tweeting. Wellman obviously has tried to find a road through what I would consider an minor earthquake in college athletics. Can we define where that road starts in say 2010 with the Bzd hire and after keeping Grobe from going to Arkansas? Do we know where that road leads? Can we get Wellman to articulate it?

Grading him for hires going back to 2001 based on record and this and that doesn't get close to touching any of that and so I find very little value in it.
 
I agree with almost everything in that post. Not sure why you didn't state this as your first post instead of slamming our writer unnecessarily.

Great post.
 
Haven't read the article but I had a hunch it was only going to factor coaching hires, which means it has not properly evaluated Wellman's job.

Just wanted to say I am pretty confident Wake athletics has lost money each of the last two years, donations are down, and TV money is keeping us afloat. I agree with LK that [Redacted] is a huge misfire that should ding Wellman signficantly.
 
CheesePritchard said:
Haven't read the article but I had a hunch it was only going to factor coaching hires, which means it has not properly evaluated Wellman's job.

Just wanted to say I am pretty confident Wake athletics has lost money each of the last two years, donations are down, and TV money is keeping us afloat. I agree with LK that [Redacted] is a huge misfire that should ding Wellman signficantly.
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I agree that it is a big misfire if it doesn't get turned around soon (the next couple of years). I too am skeptical of what I have heard about our donations based on the general thought behind Coach [Redacted] and the ire that it has drawn.
 
At best this would grade out at a C- and that is only because of the great job Jim Grobe has done during his tenure and getting the B B & T Field stadium built. Everything else but soccer and womens golf is in the dumper.
 
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