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HB2 Strikes Again

Deacsfan27 said:
These are also things found out after the fact, which none of the police officers knew at the time.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, while those above are jail sentences, they are not death sentences.
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They knew he had marijuana and a gun, which is plenty of probably cause for engaging with someone they believe to be committing a criminal act.

And I already conceded that point.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
These are also things found out after the fact, which none of the police officers knew at the time.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, while those above are jail sentences, they are not death sentences.
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Based on what has been reported by multiple sources, your first line is incorrect.

Your second sentence gets repeated a lot, but is just dumb. There is only one crime to which the death penalty applies, but the law recognizes multiple scenarios to which people are allowed to act and/or respond with lethal force. Based on your second sentence, you seem to be endorsing the thought that the police should only be allowed to utilize lethal force if they have personally witnessed the person commit first degree murder or that a person should only be allowed to employ lethal force in self-defense if they have, in fact, already been murdered in the first degree. If so, your stance is rather far apart from fairly settled law.
 
ibleedgoldandblack said:
Based on your second sentence, you seem to be endorsing the thought that the police should only be allowed to utilize lethal force if they have personally witnessed the person commit first degree murder or that a person should only be allowed to employ lethal force in self-defense if they have, in fact, already been murdered in the first degree.
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Agreed that that's not the law. When do you think police should be allowed to utilize lethal force?
 
qcdeac said:
ScoopReff with a news story from Thursday!
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Yea, I would hate for the police to be doing their job and still get vilified for it, especially by the likes of Hillary Clinton. [as Biff so eloquently pointed out "in possession of marijuana and he was also a convicted felon in possession of what turned out to be a stolen gun that he bought from a breaking and entering suspect"]
Police gave multiple warnings to drop the gun as reports now show.

Sooner or later all the "PC police" will have all events moved from areas where what they believe in is not being done. ACC/NCAA now, Wake Forest or other university activities at other schools in any other state that doesn't like what people/legislatures have done to follow. You all go on up to Canada to live--laws are so much better and all. Meanwhile let some non-HB2-dude follower walk in on your wife or girlfriend at the Y and see how you feel!
 
TheReff said:
Yea, I would hate for the police to be doing their job and still get vilified for it, especially by the likes of Hillary Clinton. [as Biff so eloquently pointed out "in possession of marijuana and he was also a convicted felon in possession of what turned out to be a stolen gun that he bought from a breaking and entering suspect"]
Police gave multiple warnings to drop the gun as reports now show.

Sooner or later all the "PC police" will have all events moved from areas where what they believe in is not being done. ACC/NCAA now, Wake Forest or other university activities at other schools in any other state that doesn't like what people/legislatures have done to follow. You all go on up to Canada to live--laws are so much better and all. Meanwhile let some non-HB2-dude follower walk in on your wife or girlfriend at the Y and see how you feel!
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Just so we are clear, these so called "PC Police" have now infiltrated: the Charlotte County Board, the ACC, the NCAA, Amazon, Dell, Paypal, Deutsche Bank, Broadway, Lionsgate, Four State governments, Eight City governments, Bruce Springsteen, Ringo Starr,

That's what you believe?
 
ibleedgoldandblack said:
Based on what has been reported by multiple sources, your first line is incorrect.

Your second sentence gets repeated a lot, but is just dumb. There is only one crime to which the death penalty applies, but the law recognizes multiple scenarios to which people are allowed to act and/or respond with lethal force. Based on your second sentence, you seem to be endorsing the thought that the police should only be allowed to utilize lethal force if they have personally witnessed the person commit first degree murder or that a person should only be allowed to employ lethal force in self-defense if they have, in fact, already been murdered in the first degree. If so, your stance is rather far apart from fairly settled law.
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Thanks for posting that. It's the first thing I think of every time someone posts something like that....which, as you said, is extremely often. And it is so dishonest. The guy wasn't killed because of his prior "jail sentence" crimes. He was killed because he repeatedly refused to drop a lethal weapon which placed innocent lives in danger.
 
TheReff said:
Yea, I would hate for the police to be doing their job and still get vilified for it, especially by the likes of Hillary Clinton. [as Biff so eloquently pointed out "in possession of marijuana and he was also a convicted felon in possession of what turned out to be a stolen gun that he bought from a breaking and entering suspect"]
Police gave multiple warnings to drop the gun as reports now show.

Sooner or later all the "PC police" will have all events moved from areas where what they believe in is not being done. ACC/NCAA now, Wake Forest or other university activities at other schools in any other state that doesn't like what people/legislatures have done to follow. You all go on up to Canada to live--laws are so much better and all. Meanwhile let some non-HB2-dude follower walk in on your wife or girlfriend at the Y and see how you feel!
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Worried you'll be emasculated?
 
Should I let TheReff know that the men's showers at the Dowd YMCA is about the gayest place in North Carolina ?
 
deacdixieboy said:
The apology wasn't phony at all. You don't know me. I started the thread immediately after it was announced that sporting events would be moved. I can't control the way the conversation went after that. Get off your high horse. I'm more liberal than anyone I know but I didn't make this political in any way
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LOL. That's a good one. Start a thread about HB2 and claim that it is not political.
 
bobknightfan said:
Thanks for posting that. It's the first thing I think of every time someone posts something like that....which, as you said, is extremely often. And it is so dishonest. The guy wasn't killed because of his prior "jail sentence" crimes. He was killed because he repeatedly refused to drop a lethal weapon which placed innocent lives in danger.
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Are you saying that based on the video we have Scott posed an imminent deadly threat? He was (maybe) holding a gun with his hands by his side, which is legal in NC.

Using that logic police would be justified taking out every single open carry advocate carrying their assault rifles around in public.
 
RChildress107 said:
Are you saying that based on the video we have Scott posed an imminent deadly threat? He was (maybe) holding a gun with his hands by his side, which is legal in NC.

Using that logic police would be justified taking out every single open carry advocate carrying their assault rifles around in public.
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He had committed a crime. Police issued a lawful order to drop the gun. He didn't do it.

The scenario you pose is not the same thing. (Although, I would be more than happy for the police to intercept and talk to anyone they see walking around Charlotte with an assault rifle, legal or not.)
 
RChildress107 said:
Are you saying that based on the video we have Scott posed an imminent deadly threat? He was (maybe) holding a gun with his hands by his side, which is legal in NC.

Using that logic police would be justified taking out every single open carry advocate carrying their assault rifles around in public.
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He died because he disobeyed a direct order from the police, and the police are allowed to kill people that disobey them. You don't have to be posing an imminent threat to a bear to get eaten by a bear.
 
BiffTannen said:
Should I let TheReff know that the men's showers at the Dowd YMCA is about the gayest place in North Carolina ?
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I guess you would know about those "kinds of places in North Carolina" there Biff! Just saying as I haven't been to Dowd YMCA but it sounds like you hang there a lot.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
He died because he disobeyed a direct order from the police, and the police are allowed to kill people that disobey them. You don't have to be posing an imminent threat to a bear to get eaten by a bear.
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My daughter, who is a first responder for a major city in NC, sees this every day. The citizens disrespect law enforcement and abuse the system. She has now had to buy her own $500 Kevlar vest just for protection. People are starting to stop with reckless disregard fire trucks, police cars, EMT vehicles & ambulances with fake calls to then attack them, scream "black lives matter" or if they get struck when sucker punched, then call our "police brutality". She has answered them more than once with WTF! to me "all lives matter", that is why I am out here! So you guys with all your moral ass bullshit do not have a clue what goes on in the real world of these people. It is a split second decision the police have to make and if they have what they think is a gun [or fake gun in the case of the 13 year old boy who was killed last week] pulled on them, they are trained to SHOOT TO KILL!. Thee policemen & women want to go home to their families also so tell your moral ass families and friends to get a clue--respect the law and if they give you a direct command, to put down your weapon--LISTEN TO THEM! It will save your life and them a lot of paperwork and hassle on a normal justified shooting [which 99% are]
 
TheReff said:
My daughter, who is a first responder for a major city in NC, sees this every day. The citizens disrespect law enforcement and abuse the system. She has now had to buy her own $500 Kevlar vest just for protection. People are starting to stop with reckless disregard fire trucks, police cars, EMT vehicles & ambulances with fake calls to then attack them, scream "black lives matter" or if they get struck when sucker punched, then call our "police brutality". She has answered them more than once with WTF! to me "all lives matter", that is why I am out here! So you guys with all your moral ass bullshit do not have a clue what goes on in the real world of these people. It is a split second decision the police have to make and if they have what they think is a gun [or fake gun in the case of the 13 year old boy who was killed last week] pulled on them, they are trained to SHOOT TO KILL!. Thee policemen & women want to go home to their families also so tell your moral ass families and friends to get a clue--respect the law and if they give you a direct command, to put down your weapon--LISTEN TO THEM! It will save your life and them a lot of paperwork and hassle on a normal justified shooting [which 99% are]
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Congratulations, you've identified the problem. I'm sure they want to go home to their families, as we all do, but they signed up for a potentially dangerous job. They weren't drafted. You don't just get to shoot indiscriminately in a professional capacity just because you got spooked and want to go home to your family
 
RChildress107 said:
He was (maybe) holding a gun with his hands by his side, which is legal in NC.
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Is open carry legal if you are under the influence or in possession of marijuana?

Per his wife last year, "he does not have a permit, he is a felon."

Scott knew he was breaking the law by possessing the gun that day. He had a healthy rap sheet, which made it more likely he would face significant jail time for possessing a gun last week. I think that shaped his decision to not drop the gun, despite the officer's commands. Was Scott planning to make a run for it, was he trying to get a good angle on 1 of the officers that were around him, was he trying to commit suicide by cop, was he going to lay the gun down peacefully?

Who knows. Our view from the 3 videos is nowhere near as clear as what the cops saw last Tuesday. We can't even tell if it's a gun, much less if Scott's right hand was moving at all, where he was looking or what was going on with his facial expressions.

Just a shitty tragedy.
 
That's the problem I have with releasing the videos. 99% of the time they are only going to reinforce the stance/outcome you support. Cop supporters are going to say the video proves it was justified, those on the other side are going to say it proved he wasn't a threat.

It's a no win situation for everyone involved. I believe we can all agree that we wish it would have ended differently, and that it doesn't look like there will be definitive proof of either viewpoint...at least not any time soon.

Sad situation all around...and I would hate to be the one that had to make that decision to fire.
 
TheReff said:
My daughter, who is a first responder for a major city in NC, sees this every day. The citizens disrespect law enforcement and abuse the system. She has now had to buy her own $500 Kevlar vest just for protection. People are starting to stop with reckless disregard fire trucks, police cars, EMT vehicles & ambulances with fake calls to then attack them, scream "black lives matter" or if they get struck when sucker punched, then call our "police brutality". She has answered them more than once with WTF! to me "all lives matter", that is why I am out here! So you guys with all your moral ass bullshit do not have a clue what goes on in the real world of these people. It is a split second decision the police have to make and if they have what they think is a gun [or fake gun in the case of the 13 year old boy who was killed last week] pulled on them, they are trained to SHOOT TO KILL!. Thee policemen & women want to go home to their families also so tell your moral ass families and friends to get a clue--respect the law and if they give you a direct command, to put down your weapon--LISTEN TO THEM! It will save your life and them a lot of paperwork and hassle on a normal justified shooting [which 99% are]
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Why do the police invest in tasers? Every sworn officer in Charlotte has been issued a Taser X2. So we have four tasers at the scene. Seems this man was within the 20 foot range. The fact they have tasers would suggest it's not always shoot to kill.
 
macktheknife said:
Why do the police invest in tasers? Every sworn officer in Charlotte has been issued a Taser X2. So we have four tasers at the scene. Seems this man was within the 20 foot range. The fact they have tasers would suggest it's not always shoot to kill.
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So they are supposed to try to tase a convicted violent felon with a gun (who has previously shot someone)? Makes perfect sense.
 
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