HB2 Strikes Again

[PhDeac]

I give up. You don't think there is an issue so you can't see that others do. Of course it is no big deal to you, or me, or other normal people. We change clothes, we use the bathroom, we get out. Unfortunately, everyone is not like us.

Right. And those people are called perverts and there are laws to address that. They aren't called trans.

 

[Deacsfan27]

In Charleston on Saturday there was a super long line for the women's bathroom, but the men's bathroom had two stalls and no line.

I was in the mens room for 2 minutes with a couple of other women. Nothing happened. We all took care of our business and then we left.

 

[Deacsfan27]

I give up. You don't think there is an issue so you can't see that others do. Of course it is no big deal to you, or me, or other normal people. We change clothes, we use the bathroom, we get out. Unfortunately, everyone is not like us.

THERE ARE ALREADY LAWS THAT DEAL WITH PEOPLE WHO HARASS AND ASSAULT PEOPLE.

Is there research somewhere that indicates folks who are transgender harass and assault people at a higher rate than cis-gender folks?

 

[Deacfreak07]

I give up. You don't think there is an issue so you can't see that others do. Of course it is no big deal to you, or me, or other normal people. We change clothes, we use the bathroom, we get out. Unfortunately, everyone is not like us.

If you are suggesting that changing rooms shouldn't be just giant open rooms expected to have tons of people, then I agree with you. If your problem is with semi public nudity then that should be your problem.

 

[Deacfreak07]

Right. And those people are called perverts and there are laws to address that. They aren't called trans.

Some of them are called Mr. President.

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

A public restroom is for peeing and (god forbid) pooping if you really can't wait until you get home. And for checking your makeup or hair or that your teeth are reasonably clean. That's about it.

If you're leering, ogling, flashing, etc. then you're out of bounds regardless of if it's a men's or women's room or you're either or both or something in between.

Look, who should decide what is the proper room for anyone to use for peeing and such, the state, the city, or the person needing to pee? If you really buy into what passes as conservative thinking these days, it should be the latter. In which case you should embrace an ordinance like the CLT one.

The real problem is the acceptance of trans folks as legitimate/real. Reverend Baity (in the article I posted earlier) just doesn't think they really exist. And hence, need or should have no protections in law.

Right, but why does only one of the two (or more) people in the bathroom get to decide which is the correct bathroom for everyone to be in?

I really think trans people have an unhealthy fear of penises, which is supremely ironic since they have one.

FIFY to reflect who wanted the initial ordinance to get away from other penises.

No. I think you all must experience facilities differently than I do. I've never seen anybody ogle anyone else in a bathroom and I've been in coed bathrooms.

I just don't understand what the issue is. Bathrooms are places where we pee and poop. There's no titillation involved.

Again, so why the need for the CLT Ordinance? Especially with no evidence of violence, why were trans people so insistent on getting out of whichever bathroom they were using? They clearly view it as more than places where we pee and poop if they were so eager to change the law.

 

[Biff Tannen]

In Charleston on Saturday there was a super long line for the women's bathroom, but the men's bathroom had two stalls and no line.

I was in the mens room for 2 minutes with a couple of other women. Nothing happened. We all took care of our business and then we left.

Pretty sure if there's a woman in the men's room she's there to get down. It would appear you friend zoned a chick who was in heat.

 

[Deacsfan27]

Pretty sure if there's a woman in the men's room she's there to get down.

I should have just grabbed her by the pussy. I've heard they like that and sometimes just let you do that if you're rich and famous enough.

 

[Biff Tannen]

I should have just grabbed her by the pussy. I've heard they like that and sometimes just let you do that if you're rich and famous enough.

Why do you think she was in a room where men take off their pants in the first place ?

 

[scooter84]

Right. And those people are called perverts and there are laws to address that. They aren't called trans.

OK, maybe you aren't being purposely dense, maybe you are really dense. If the law says a man can be in the ladies locker room and the man is sitting there watching the women change but not attacking anyone, by what right can he be asked to leave? Which law will "address that"?

 

[RJKarl]

OK, maybe you aren't being purposely dense, maybe you are really dense. If the law says a man can be in the ladies locker room and the man is sitting there watching the women change but not attacking anyone, by what right can he be asked to leave? Which law will "address that"?

Using this logic you'd force a pre-op or partially changed trans woman into the men's lockerroom.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

FIFY to reflect who wanted the initial ordinance to get away from other penises.

No. Trans people would like to use the bathroom without fear of harassment or having the cops called on them. While many private establishments accomodate them peacefully, its surely very frustrating and demeaning having to play Russian roulette worrying about which bar restaurant club store is going to call the cops on you for taking a piss. Maybe You havent noticed, but there are no "trans people not welcome" signs posted at businesses, its something that people have to find out the hard way.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

 

[scooter84]

THERE ARE ALREADY LAWS THAT DEAL WITH PEOPLE WHO HARASS AND ASSAULT PEOPLE.

Is there research somewhere that indicates folks who are transgender harass and assault people at a higher rate than cis-gender folks?

No, the issue is not that trans people harass or assault people more, it is that a law that says people can change clothes in whichever facility they want will allow non-trans people to hang out with, observe, whatever, people of the opposite sex. AND, DESPITE WHAT YOU APPARENTLY THINK, YELLING DOESN"T MAKE YOU SMARTER. Of course there are laws that deal with assault and harassment - no shit. Once the law allows a man in the women's locker room, what law will allow him to be kicked out because he is just hanging out in there casually watching the women?

Maybe the net result of all this is that we go to single stall bathrooms and locker rooms with more private, closed-off spaces for changing.... Then perhaps it won't be as big a deal. I just know that the locker rooms I have used in the past, and use currently, are mostly open spaces with naked dudes walking around, toweling off, changing clothes, etc. It doesn't seem like the ideal place for gender-mixing...

 

[scooter84]

Using this logic you'd force a pre-op or partially changed trans woman into the men's lockerroom.

I recognize the difficulty for those people and don't really know what I would "force them to do" - it is a difficult situation. I am mostly just trying to identify the issues on the other side, which many people simply fail to see at all. If either side refuses to see the other side's point of view, there is no understanding and compromise and resolution becomes impossible. And that goes for both sides, of course.

 

[scooter84]

No. Trans people would like to use the bathroom without fear of harassment or having the cops called on them. While many private establishments accomodate them peacefully, its surely very frustrating and demeaning having to play Russian roulette worrying about which bar restaurant club store is going to call the cops on you for taking a piss. Maybe You havent noticed, but there are no "trans people not welcome" signs posted at businesses, its something that people have to find out the hard way.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

I would honestly love to see some statistics on how often that happens. I really don't know. Maybe it is more of a problem than I think.

 

[RJKarl]

I recognize the difficulty for those people and don't really know what I would "force them to do" - it is a difficult situation. I am mostly just trying to identify the issues on the other side, which many people simply fail to see at all. If either side refuses to see the other side's point of view, there is no understanding and compromise and resolution becomes impossible. And that goes for both sides, of course.

The purpose of this law is to discriminate in many ways against the LBGTQ community. That's the reason it exists. Anything else is window dressing and ways to persecute employees.

It shows NC to be bigoted, hateful and dismissive of people who work hard for a living. NC is an embarrassment and should be ashamed.

 

[scooter84]

The purpose of this law is to discriminate in many ways against the LBGTQ community. That's the reason it exists. Anything else is window dressing and persecuting employees.

Exhibit #1 for people who refuse to see a point of view other than their own.

 

[RJKarl]

Exhibit #1 for people who refuse to see a point of view other than their own.

READ the law. You can't tell me it's not bigoted against the LGBTQ community. It even bars lawsuits.

You can't tell me it doesn't persecute low paid employees and all employees in its restrictions on pay and lawsuits.

 

[ConnorEl]

Right, but why does only one of the two (or more) people in the bathroom get to decide which is the correct bathroom for everyone to be in?...

???

Pretty sure the point is for everyone to decide for themselves into which room they belong.


Not being transgender, I'm not so aware of the challenges such folks face. Here's something from this place (FAQ: ANSWERS TO SOME COMMON QUESTIONS ABOUT EQUAL ACCESS TO PUBLIC RESTROOMS) though, that suggests some need for regulations like the one in CLT.

Quote:
----------
Transgender people face a uniquely high degree of harassment—53% of 6,450 transgender people reported being harassed or disrespected in a place of public accommodation in a recent survey conducted by the National Center for Transgender Equality and the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.
----------

 

[Deacsfan27]

No, the issue is not that trans people harass or assault people more, it is that a law that says people can change clothes in whichever facility they want will allow non-trans people to hang out with, observe, whatever, people of the opposite sex. AND, DESPITE WHAT YOU APPARENTLY THINK, YELLING DOESN"T MAKE YOU SMARTER. Of course there are laws that deal with assault and harassment - no shit. Once the law allows a man in the women's locker room, what law will allow him to be kicked out because he is just hanging out in there casually watching the women?

Maybe the net result of all this is that we go to single stall bathrooms and locker rooms with more private, closed-off spaces for changing.... Then perhaps it won't be as big a deal. I just know that the locker rooms I have used in the past, and use currently, are mostly open spaces with naked dudes walking around, toweling off, changing clothes, etc. It doesn't seem like the ideal place for gender-mixing...

What law currently prevents old men from standing around in the Y and staring at young boys?