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In Response to Caturday's claims on the $250k thread...

OliveGardenDeac

OliveGardenDeac

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Making $250k in Winston-Salem doesn't equal making $250k in NYC. A family in NYC making $250k is going to struggle to pay for college and save for retirement.
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I suggest you read this article: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/07/08/early-retirement-cant-work-or-id-have-heard-of-it-before/

On the contrary, a family making $250k (roughly $170k after taxes) in NYC who chooses to live like the median family in NYC on roughly $40k per year and invest the rest in the S&P 500, will end up with $5,498,141.57. Even if they instead chose to spend 50% more than the median, they would still end up with $4,652,585.96. Hell, double the median family on $80k/year and they still will have $3,806,522.82.

All of these numbers are inflation adjusted, using the historical, after-inflation 7% (10% before) growth rate of the S&P 500 and assume the family starts with $0 net worth. You see, what we have here is lifestyle inflation and complainypants syndrome. $250k is plenty to live a grand life in the present, pay for 4 children to attend elite private schools without financial aid, and still retire multimillionaires in your 50s. Are they really struggling members of the middle class?
 
Don't want to be a dick but you are crazy if you think you can raise a family in NYC for 40k a year. Hell, a 3 br apartment is going to run you 55k/year and that is conservative.
 
Stan Gable said:
Don't want to be a dick but you are crazy if you think you can raise a family in NYC for 40k a year. Hell, a 3 br apartment is going to run you 55k/year and that is conservative.
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How does the median family get by on 40k per year then? The median household in NYC is $48,631. That means millions of families are living on $40k/year or less. How do they do it? I don't really know. Maybe they commute, maybe they live in 2 bedroom apts, maybe they don't live in the priciest areas. But they do it, and the stats show that it is possible. But even if a $250k family thinks spending $40k/year is below them, and they want to double it do spending $80k/year after-taxes they will still end up very wealthy. Surely no one is arguing that you can't raise a family in NYC on $80k/year after-tax?
 
You can't save any money with a take home pay of 80k living in Manhattan with kids. The Bronx and Harlem is another story but I'd think saftey and schooling would be an issue.
 
Stan Gable said:
You can't save any money with a take home pay of 80k living in Manhattan with kids. The Bronx and Harlem is another story but I'd think saftey and schooling would be an issue.
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That may be true. I know almost nothing about NYC, but I know that living in Manhattan would be a choice. I work in Silicon Valley, but I chose to live on the East Bay because it is cheaper. And if you make $250k, you'd save $90k even with spending $80k which will add up to quite a lot of money over time.

I'm not saying that people who make $250k are "rich". Rich people don't have jobs and don't define their wealth by income. I'm just arguing that no matter where you live in the world, $250k is plenty to save for a top 2% retirement and send your kids to very good schools.
 
If you know nothing about NYC then you should probably stop talking about it. Brooklyn, Queens, Westchester, Long Island, Hoboken and surrounding safe neighborhoods are not cheap.
 
Nvm, don't want to get involved in this discussion.
 
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OliveGardenDeac said:
How does the median family get by on 40k per year then? The median household in NYC is $48,631. That means millions of families are living on $40k/year or less. How do they do it? I don't really know. Maybe they commute, maybe they live in 2 bedroom apts, maybe they don't live in the priciest areas. But they do it, and the stats show that it is possible. But even if a $250k family thinks spending $40k/year is below them, and they want to double it do spending $80k/year after-taxes they will still end up very wealthy. Surely no one is arguing that you can't raise a family in NYC on $80k/year after-tax?
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The entitlement needs of the wealthy far exceed the basic bullshit they whine about providing to welfare queens and medicare cheats.

Sack up you pussies! Driving a 5-series BMW isn't THAT bad.
 
Stan Gable said:
If you know nothing about NYC then you should probably stop talking about it. Brooklyn, Queens, Westchester, Long Island, Hoboken and surrounding safe neighborhoods are not cheap.
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Do you live in NY? I live in Brooklyn, and have for a very long time in three neighborhoods all over the borough. Lived in Queens, too, but only for about six months. This is 2012. There are more safe places to raise a family than unsafe places to raise a family in NYC...

What are these dangerous neighborhoods?
 
OliveGardenDeac said:
How does the median family get by on 40k per year then? The median household in NYC is $48,631. That means millions of families are living on $40k/year or less. How do they do it? I don't really know. Maybe they commute, maybe they live in 2 bedroom apts, maybe they don't live in the priciest areas. But they do it, and the stats show that it is possible. But even if a $250k family thinks spending $40k/year is below them, and they want to double it do spending $80k/year after-taxes they will still end up very wealthy. Surely no one is arguing that you can't raise a family in NYC on $80k/year after-tax?
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Stan Gable said:
You can't save any money with a take home pay of 80k living in Manhattan with kids. The Bronx and Harlem is another story but I'd think saftey and schooling would be an issue.
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Folks who make that kind of money have either lived in Manhattan for a very long time, are immigrants living in Chinatown, live in Upper Manhattan (Harlem, Washington Heights, and Inwood), or live in public or subsidized housing. Manhattan is one of the more absurdly expensive places on Earth.
 
Stan Gable said:
Don't want to be a dick but you are crazy if you think you can raise a family in NYC for 40k a year. Hell, a 3 br apartment is going to run you 55k/year and that is conservative.
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NYC has rent control. That's one big reason why it is so affordable to live there. Good ideas like rent control should spread all over so everyone can live in a $4000/mo. flophouse.
 
Dont really want to get involved in this discussion, but just so it's clear....the average income in Manhattan is 120k. Someone posted a link to it in the other thread.
 
I saw some of his posts on the other thread, but I thought it was just Caturday being Caturday. Didn't he post that it takes a while to commute from Brooklyn to Manhattan? Was that not just trolling?
 
The point of this whole discussion is that if you make $250k and can't afford to save anything for retirement and can't afford to pay for your kids to go to college, you have a spending problem, not an income problem. Spending problems are rampant among members of all income classes. Many pro athletes and celebrities go bankrupt with incomes that make $250k look like minimum wage. Does that mean they are middle class? No, it just means they don't understand anything about personal finance or have no discipline.
 
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OliveGardenDeac said:
I suggest you read this article: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/07/08/early-retirement-cant-work-or-id-have-heard-of-it-before/

On the contrary, a family making $250k (roughly $170k after taxes) in NYC who chooses to live like the median family in NYC on roughly $40k per year and invest the rest in the S&P 500, will end up with $5,498,141.57. Even if they instead chose to spend 50% more than the median, they would still end up with $4,652,585.96. Hell, double the median family on $80k/year and they still will have $3,806,522.82.

All of these numbers are inflation adjusted, using the historical, after-inflation 7% (10% before) growth rate of the S&P 500 and assume the family starts with $0 net worth. You see, what we have here is lifestyle inflation and complainypants syndrome. $250k is plenty to live a grand life in the present, pay for 4 children to attend elite private schools without financial aid, and still retire multimillionaires in your 50s. Are they really struggling members of the middle class?
Click to expand...

Stop quoting this vaguely educated hippy moron with a shitty DIY blog like he is an authority on anything. We are happy you found some fellow spam eating compatriot.

You realize that you are like eveyone's mom and grandmom who says, "Well the guy down at the Verizon store told me....." and then rattles off some completely untrue nonsense that some community college dropout just told them. That is you now.

Give it a rest.
 
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Fair enough. I don't care how people spend their money, it's just wrong for people with spending problems to claim "woe is me how I struggle amongst the middle class..."
 
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