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Israel Attacked and its Response

diverdeac said:
This is very true. So if we could time travel we could go back for a re do. The reality is that NOW the rats have to be exterminated. Even if it is much the fault of the west for bad political hygiene. The ISISifaction of Hamas is scary.
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“the rats have to be exterminated” is where genocide starts

Disgusting post. Congrats, diverdeac.
 
Can we just be perfectly clear about the conditions in Gaza prior to these Hamas attacks?

2.1 million people live in a more dense strip of land than London or Shanghai, a little less than half of whom are children. That means any time Israel fired rockets, even targeted attacks, there was a high likelihood for civilian, and likely children deaths, and in large numbers. Most of the population live for most of the year without electricity or access to safe water. Their imports and exports are highly blockaded, and they are not allowed to move freely. Unemployment is nearly highest in the world, and 80+% of the population relies on UN or international aid (which has now been revoked) simply to survive.

These are conditions entirely imposed by Israel and the nations who support Israel, and it’s tantamount to genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Of course the blockade doesn’t even work for its stated purpose of keeping weapons out of the hands of Hamas. It is always going to be civilians who suffer the most from what Hamas and IDF do. Hamas leadership is in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. I’m pretty ashamed at America’s bipartisan response, a few brave souls notwithstanding. They remain quiet for long stretches of brutal despotic ghetto and apartheid rule, and then can’t even find a context for which to place their outrage when the other shoe drops.
 
Kory said:
From the exec summary

"The report describes how Palestinian women and girls continued to suffer the adverse effects of occupation, political violence, and human rights violations. It highlights the gendered impacts of Israeli policies, including increasing settlement activity, threatened evictions and house demolitions, particularly in East Jerusalem and Area C of the West Bank, along with the consequences of the 15-year Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip."

I feel like the UN report is saying that Palestine's record on women's right for the last 15 years is an unfortunate product of Israel unless I'm missing something.
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Yes, the first paragraph of the Executive Summary does talk about the Israeli occupation and the challenges it presents. The second paragraph of the Executive Summary talks about "entrenched discrimination and rights violations within their own society." If you read the entire report, you'll see the two are frequently intertwined.

It's harder to find data from before the occupation, but there were 20 honor killings in 2006, and 46 between 2000 and 2005. There are also laws in place that have nothing to do with the occupation, including "Article 308 of the Jordanian Penal Code (in force in the West Bank) provides for the dropping of legal proceedings against a rapist who marries his victim according to a proper marriage contract; Article 340 grants exemption from prosecution or reduced penalties to husbands or male blood relatives who kill or assault female relatives on grounds of ‘family honour;’ under Article 98 men who kill female relatives under ‘suspicious’ circumstances can receive reduced sentences; finally, Articles 285 and 286 stipulate that if a girl wants to report a complaint, this must be filed by a male relative (see Shalhoub Kevorkian, 2004)." Here's a link to that particular report.
 
“Soldiers encounter unimaginable horrors as they remove the bodies of victims, including about 40 babies and small children — some with their heads chopped off”


www.i24news.tv

'It smells of death here': Surveying the scenes of atrocities in Kfar Aza - I24NEWS

No one could expect the horrors seen by the Israeli first responders, of about at least 40 babies being taken out on gurneys, some with heads chopped off - Click the link for more details.
www.i24news.tv www.i24news.tv
 
excuse me. Allow me to rephrase. Every Hamas fighter that took part in the mass rapes and executions of innocent young people should be be summarily executed. The wrath that is coming ….how is that?
 
diverdeac said:
This is very true. So if we could time travel we could go back for a re do. The reality is that NOW the rats have to be exterminated. Even if it is much the fault of the west for bad political hygiene. The ISISifaction of Hamas is scary.
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Personally I see more of this type of rhetoric in the wild than I do people giddy over the attack or cheering on Hamas. This is anecdotal and doesn't excuse either, obviously. Both flavors are deplorable.

But the hand wringing is directed at conversations trying to unpack the historical backdrop leading to the attack and its geopolitical implications.
 
diverdeac said:
now is the time for war. The rapes, torture and murder of those young concert goers is the only thing that is front of mind now. I don’t blame Israel if it goes door to door and kills every single Hamas member for what they did.
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Would you say the same of the members of the IDF guilty of committing the same crimes against Palestinians?
 
So you are saying the IDF is gang raping the women and cutting the heads off of babies?
 
diverdeac said:
So you are saying the IDF is gang raping the women and cutting the heads off of babies?
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Jfc, all anybody is saying is that if you're going to claim the moral high ground maybe calling for ethnic cleansing isn't the vibe.
 
If you care at all about human dignity, if you believe at all in international law, then the acts by Hamas have to be condemned unequivocally. That does not mean there shouldn’t be a deeper conversation about the context of the Israel-Palestine situation.

While there needs to be a real discussion and condemnation of how Israel has treated Palestine, mentioning it in context of the Hamas attacks comes dangerously close to justifying thise attacks, which no reasonable human being can possibly do.
 
WindyCityDeac said:
If you care at all about human dignity, if you believe at all in international law, then the acts by Hamas have to be condemned unequivocally. That does not mean there shouldn’t be a deeper conversation about the context of the Israel-Palestine situation.

While there needs to be a real discussion and condemnation of how Israel has treated Palestine, mentioning it in context of the Hamas attacks comes dangerously close to justifying thise attacks, which no reasonable human being can possibly do.
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I agree. Indiscriminately murdering civilians and destroying populated areas is a deplorable act.

One instance of this is by a terrorist organization. The instance that has followed has come from a sovereign government.

It’s all too complicated for this kind of post, Windy.

And if that’s frustrating to hear, then welcome to the evergreen moral conundrum confronting American and Israeli Jews for the last half century.
 
Strickland33 said:
I agree. Indiscriminately murdering civilians and destroying populated areas is a deplorable act.

One instance of this is by a terrorist organization. The instance that has followed has come from a sovereign government.

It’s all too complicated for this kind of post, Windy.

And if that’s frustrating to hear, then welcome to the evergreen moral conundrum confronting American and Israeli Jews for the last half century.
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I fully agree. it’s far too complicated for this entire thread honestly
 
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