• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

John Collins is #2 in KP's All-ACC Ratings

Collins free throw shooting, as well as his ability to make mid-range shots tends to make me believe that he can be a decent three point shooter. At least good enough to stretch the D and make them worry about him taking a shot.
 
RChildress107 said:
I tend to agree, but is there any evidence of this?
Click to expand...

You would think just the time alone that he would have to commit to his game would make it a true statement. Juggling school & hoops would no longer be an issue. With that being said I believe he comes back for another year.
 
RChildress107 said:
I tend to agree, but is there any evidence of this?
Click to expand...

No... just more practice time and game time (D league) against better players. I mean the best defender Collins is practicing against right now is...Moore?
 
Why would you develop more in college when you have very strict restrictions on practice time and academic requirements compared to the NBA where you're getting paid to play basketball and going against better competition every single time you're out there?

I've never understood that.
 
When it comes to things like strength, shooting, defensive footwork, etc. I think you are right. The ability to spend way more time on those things at the pro level is valuable (though the amount of additional time is probably overstated).

But there are other basketball skills like passing, off ball movement, defensive positioning, etc. that have to be developed by playing in actual games or scrimmages.

That doesn't even address the mental aspects of the game.

I'd be interested to see some data on the benefits (both financially and basketball wise) of going vs staying.
 
Selfishly, want JC back to kick some ACC ass next season and take the NCAAT by storm! :dancindeac:
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Why would you develop more in college when you have very strict restrictions on practice time and academic requirements compared to the NBA where you're getting paid to play basketball and going against better competition every single time you're out there?

I've never understood that.
Click to expand...

Even with the limited schedule I imagine you get more time playing live basketball starring for a college team than sitting on the end of an NBA bench.

The quality and amount of individual instruction is better at the college level than the D-League.

I also think there is a limited window during which a player will either show value at the NBA level or fall out of the league. Starting that window too early might prevent a player from developing quickly enough to keep NBA teams interested.
 
I don't think any of those are true.
 
RChildress107 said:
Even with the limited schedule I imagine you get more time playing live basketball starring for a college team than sitting on the end of an NBA bench.

The quality and amount of individual instruction is better at the college level than the D-League.

I also think there is a limited window during which a player will either show value at the NBA level or fall out of the league. Starting that window too early might prevent a player from developing quickly enough to keep NBA teams interested.
Click to expand...

Of your three statements this one is the most wrong. I can see an argument for one (especially around now when a lot of teams only do walkthroughs at practice) and three is too vague to matter.
 
Yes, we all know that every 1st rounder maximizes his extra time to work on his game more in the pros. Kids that suddenly have $4M in their pocket never make wrong or bad choices. Every year 100% of the lottery and 1st round draftees work hard, develop and get max contracts for their next contract. None barely hold on in the league to primarily sit on the bench or wind up in Europe.

JC seems like the type of kid that has the discipline to do the right things but you never know until they've got that cash in their hands.

An interesting question is would TD as a soph exit have been as good in the NBA as a Sr graduate? He came in as a 1st team All NBA player. I doubt there is an aurguement that he would not have been 1st team All NBA after his soph year, he was still pretty raw then and had just broken out during that season.
 
timdunkandthefunk said:
Of your three statements this one is the most wrong. I can see an argument for one (especially around now when a lot of teams only do walkthroughs at practice) and three is too vague to matter.
Click to expand...

Quality for sure, amount maybe not.

My third statement is basically that it's easier to get lost in the shuffle (due to lack of playing time, lack of confidence, adjusting to travel, going back and forth between the D-League, etc.) if you go before you are ready to contribute at some level. That's especially true if you end up in the wrong situation (say the Kings).

There are a lot more variables outside of your control when you jump from being the star of your college team to the end of an NBA bench. If you are good enough to contribute right away (or after a year of strength training and learning the system) then those variables don't matter as much. If you are a year of college away from that though those variables matter a lot.
 
As a general statement, Navy Seals training will get you in better shape than spending five hours at the gym every week.

Most people at your gym would drop out of Seals training the first day. Some might be able to complete it right now. But there a probably a few people who would fail if they tried right now, but if they spent the next year at the gym five hours a week they would greatly increase their odds of success.
 
the only hazard of going too early is not being mature enough to handle it. some people go too early not because their skills or body isn't ready but because they can't handle having a super stressful demanding job at that young with heavy demands.

without a doubt if you can handle the work and the travel and the distractions the nba is better for you to improve your game. college is much better at providing an emotional support system, that's it.
 
Of course he's going to leave early. We are Wake Forest. We don't get nice things.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
the only hazard of going too early is not being mature enough to handle it. some people go too early not because their skills or body isn't ready but because they can't handle having a super stressful demanding job at that young with heavy demands.

without a doubt if you can handle the work and the travel and the distractions the nba is better for you to improve your game. college is much better at providing an emotional support system, that's it.
Click to expand...

Agree with this for the most part.
 
To keep it simple, to illustrate the actual financial analysis that should be done for leaving, let's look at two options.

1. Leaves this year, hangs on enough to get a second contract but never really develops, in part because he wasn't quite ready.
2. Leaves in a year physically stronger more NBA ready and can contribute to an NBA team in year one. Develops accordingly and get several big contracts.

Year Leave now Leave in a year
1 4,000,000 0
2 4,000,000 3,500,000
3 4,000,000 3,500,000
4 4,000,000 3,500,000
5 2,000,000 3,500,000
6 2,000,000 6,000,000
7 2,000,000 6,000,000
8 500,000 6,000,000
9 500,000 10,000,000
10 500,000 10,000,000
11 500,000 10,000,000
12 500,000 10,000,000

NPV of option 1 is $20,203,086.92

NPV of option 2 is $48,622,640.32

As I stated before there are a lot of scenarios that the quants can run and determine what is the likelyhood of these or any combo.

If you want to run the numbers, I used 5% return for the calc. In Excel the formula is =NPV(rate, salary by year)

Of course the salaries can be adjusted based on what the real CBA is but it's really about what is the possibility of #1 happening vs. #2 and does staying a year make #2 more likely.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top