Les Déplorables

[DEACisGO]

Objectively, there are "intellectual elites" in our society - we can all agree on that correct?

 

[Wakeforest22890]

And so the issue, again, isn't with the "intellectual elite" as a concept it's just with it in practice because people don't believe who the actual "intellectual elite" are? Am I summarizing that correctly?

I didn't think it was particularly controversial that there are people in every field who are elite in that area and should be given deference on questions of policy from that respective area.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

what's the argument that, on average, a less-educated person is in a better position to make a decision than a well-educated person

Yeah this is the issue I'm getting at.

 

[birdman]

what's the argument that, on average, a less-educated person is in a better position to make a decision than a well-educated person

We've been over this on the General Election thread...apparently you don't need knowledge to make decision, just wisdom.

 

[jhmd2000]

Good to see you realize why minorities don't vote for Republicans.

Because Dems definitely don't claim to know what's best for minorities, right RJKarl?

 

[wakephan09]

I don't oppose all intellectuals just elite ones

But actually in all seriousness:

Why do conservatives oppose the "intellectual elites" but not other kinds of elites? Some Americans practically worship Trump because he is (supposedly) very rich and successful. Should be more like "I don't oppose all elites, just intellectual ones."

 

[Liquid Karma]

The "basket of deplorables" quote. Has anybody read or seen the entire quote beyond simply "basket of deplorables?"

I have. I'm curious to see what mental gymnastics you can execute to excuse that quote.

 

[jhmd2000]

And so the issue, again, isn't with the "intellectual elite" as a concept it's just with it in practice because people don't believe who the actual "intellectual elite" are? Am I summarizing that correctly?

I didn't think it was particularly controversial that there are people in every field who are elite in that area and should be given deference on questions of policy from that respective area.

It isn't. The problem is the people who think they are those people, without much of a track record to fall back on to prove it.

The people who think they are "elite" are too often the five star recruits out of high school who've never actually thrown a pass at the level that matters. The stars look nice, but don't mean much.

 

[birdman]

And so the issue, again, isn't with the "intellectual elite" as a concept it's just with it in practice because people don't believe who the actual "intellectual elite" are? Am I summarizing that correctly?

I didn't think it was particularly controversial that there are people in every field who are elite in that area and should be given deference on questions of policy from that respective area.

I am definitely not an anti-intellectualist but there is a difference between "elite" and "elitism". You are discussing the word "elite" and your opposition is using the word "elitism."

 

[ImTheCaptain]

It isn't. The problem is the people who think they are those people, without much of a track record to fall back on to prove it.

The people who think they are "elite" are too often the five star recruits out of high school who've never actually thrown a pass at the level that matters. The stars look nice, but don't mean much.

actually they mean quite a bit because they've been evaluated for their 'career' of experiences and actions and rated for future potential.

you know, kind of like looking at a persons' resume before hiring them or voting for them

 

[jhmd2000]

actually they mean quite a bit because they've been evaluated for their 'career' of experiences and actions and rated for future potential.

you know, kind of like looking at a persons' resume before hiring them or voting for them

Ronald Curry would like a word.

 

[wakephan09]

I am definitely not an anti-intellectualist but there is a difference between "elite" and "elitism". You are discussing the word "elite" and your opposition is using the word "elitism."

There is also a difference between an 'egoist' and an 'egotist', but only one of them is aware of the difference.

 

[Shooshmoo]

This just showed up on my Facebook feed from an obviously very conservative ex-partner (he also posted the Les Deplorables link). Perhaps the Trumper's have found their theme song

My God is that horrific. Can't we just split into two countries -- those who enjoy this and those who hate it?

 

[PhDeac]

I have. I'm curious to see what mental gymnastics you can execute to excuse that quote.

So one person has read them. What specifically was your problem with it?
http://www.latimes.com/nation/polit...n-s-full-remarks-as-1473549076-htmlstory.html

"I know there are only 60 days left to make our case -- and don't get complacent, don't see the latest outrageous, offensive, inappropriate comment and think, well, he's done this time. We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America."

"But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."

 

[Shooshmoo]

I have. I'm curious to see what mental gymnastics you can execute to excuse that quote.

meh -- it's not hard. If you look at the quote she was referring to Trump supporters that are "racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic" in the context of gay rights. Does anyone here want to dispute those people are deplorable? Her problem was that she said it was half of Trump's supporters. While absofuckinglutely true, that opened her up to criticism from those Trump supporters that are those things but aren't aware of it.

 

[wakephan09]

I especially like this verse:

"I've got sick and tired of you stealing my money
to pay for jet airplanes and limousines
for crying out loud you think it's funny
you and bubba living above my means
a _______ living like kings and queens."

Seems a bit odd when I'm quite certain that Trump (and plenty of other non-Clinton politicians) has got his own fleet of jets and limousines. And why is the songwriter upset that Hillary and Bill "live above his means" when many conservatives -- as I've just mentioned earlier in the thread -- practically worship the rich and successful among us? I hate when people on the boards use either of these terms, but both seem fitting: cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics.

 

[PhDeac]

meh -- it's not hard. If you look at the quote she was referring to Trump supporters that are "racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic" in the context of gay rights. Does anyone here want to dispute those people are deplorable? Her problem was that she said it was half of Trump's supporters. While absofuckinglutely true, that opened her up to criticism from those Trump supporters that are those things but aren't aware of it.

Yeah. We've been seeing surveys over the last year that shows about half of Trump supporters or more are exactly those things. Now you can say it wasn't a nice thing to say, but it certainly wasn't incorrect and she admitted it was a generalization and gave voice to legitimate concerns within Trump's base.

It's like the cling to guns and religion quote. Not a nice thing to say, but dead on accurate.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

I am definitely not an anti-intellectualist but there is a difference between "elite" and "elitism". You are discussing the word "elite" and your opposition is using the word "elitism."

I just went back through this thread and didn't see anyone use the word elitism other than BSF (who used "elitist"). May have missed an instance or two though generally skimmed on review.

The issue that seems to be presented here is that some oppose those who claim to be intellectual elites but are not. Again, at risk of sounding like BobKnightLOLFan, my question was why would anyone want to be opposed to the intellectual elite as a general matter? The answer of "because some people claim to be elite and aren't" isn't an answer to the question.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

I just went back through this thread and didn't see anyone use the word elitism other than BSF (who used "elitist"). May have missed an instance or two though generally skimmed on review.

The issue that seems to be presented here is that some oppose those who claim to be intellectual elites but are not. Again, at risk of sounding like BobKnightLOLFan, my question was why would anyone want to be opposed to the intellectual elite as a general matter? The answer of "because some people claim to be elite and aren't" isn't an answer to the question.

no one can defend that position because it makes no sense except to wave a fist at clouds

 

[Wakeforest22890]

Yeah I mean the closest anyone came to a real answer is ELC's "well they sound like assholes so I think it's better to oppose them." Which obviously is a terrible reason logically to do so, but at least he attempted to answer the actual question instead of reframe it.

Because most of what they have to say comes off as "let them eat cake." They're patronizing assholes, basically.