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Official '16-17 NBA Thread: not with a bang but a whimper

Nah. He could be the next Richard Williams for all we know.
 
DeacdeTejas said:
He isn't close to the first and he isn't even the greatest foreign player on his team

Though as I think through names he is probably a top 10 international player
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He's a boderline top 5 international player all time, imo - that Olympic medal and being part of an iconic team matters a lot. (Not counting guys like Steve Nash and Tim Duncan that went through the US college system but were born outside the US borders).

Older guys like Sergei Belov I have no idea what to do with ... many Europeans will say he's the best non-US basketball player of all time (FIBA voted him #1 in their list and he was the first foreign player ever in the Naismith Hall of Fame) but it was well before my time and there's not even really video of him. I'll put him at 3 behind Olajuwon and Nowitzki for now.

Hakeem Olajuwon
Dirk Nowitzki
Sergei Belov
Arvydas Sabonis
Paul Gasol / Manu Ginobli
 
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vadimivich said:
He's a boderline top 5 international player all time, imo - that Olympic medal and being part of an iconic team matters a lot. (Not counting guys like Steve Nash and Tim Duncan that went through the US college system but were born outside the US borders).

Older guys like Sergei Belov I have no idea what to do with ... many Europeans will say he's the best non-US basketball player of all time (FIBA voted him #1 in their list and he was the first foreign player ever in the Naismith Hall of Fame) but it was well before my time and there's not even really video of him. I'll put him at 3 behind Olajuwon and Nowitzki for now.

Hakeem Olajuwon
Dirk Nowitzki
Sergei Belov
Arvydas Sabonis
Paul Gasol / Manu Ginobli
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Take that L from Paul, because he's not in the top 5.
 
DeacdeTejas said:
He isn't close to the first and he isn't even the greatest foreign player on his team

Though as I think through names he is probably a top 10 international player
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Fair enough. Did not mean he was one of the first ever. I did mean he was one that had a major impact on basketball. Agree my post was not clear.
Don't really consider duncan a foreigner (us vi , us college). As greats as Parker has been at time I consider ginobili to be a better player.
 
deaconson said:
Fair enough. Did not mean he was one of the first ever. I did mean he was one that had a major impact on basketball. Agree my post was not clear.
Don't really consider duncan a foreigner (us vi , us college). As greats as Parker has been at time I consider ginobili to be a better player.
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Parker does have a Finals MVP on his resume though, but no gold medal. My guess is both get in at the end of the day. You could just put two small statues on the back of the Duncan statue.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Parker does have a Finals MVP on his resume though, but no gold medal. My guess is both get in at the end of the day. You could just put two small statues on the back of the Duncan statue.
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on paper i think most/many would say parker was better stat wise. however, he's never played defense and has often inflated his scoring and not been a traditional assist pg.

ginobili is an interesting case study. he is a guy that has really taken one for the team. he's come off the bench and played a very different role than many of the nba all star type players. it's really affected his numbers. the link i posted earlier shows his advanced metrics are really impressive.

this got too #spursdonky so i'll stop here.
 
lol I was thinking the exact same thing.

Just need RJ to come in here and talk about Arvidis schooling DRob in the Olympics.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
Sergei Belov at #3 on that list is the most classic vad move you could imagine.
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Probably. Thing is, people from that era rave about him. FIBA picked him by a huge margin as the greatest international player, and he was the first international player to be elected to the Naismith Hall of Fame - whose official description calls him "The Jerry West of Russia". There's no question that European hoopheads consider him to be the greatest European player of all time before Dirk, and the argument you get now is whether or not Dirk has passed him. The only other names that would even come up in comparison are Drazen and Sabonis, but the consensus, by a wide margin is that Belov was better than both.

That being said, I obviously never watched him play and there's very scant video of USSR games available ... so you just have to go by word of mouth and reputation. His obituary in the New York Times is an interesting read.
 
I'm putting my money on Toni Kukoc giving it to that Russian fella in a game of one on one.
 
Can you imagine if there was a Russian player that went to Georgia Tech, beat Kansas in the tournament, and was drafted in the lottery? We'd have to start a new board for vad.
 
Kresimir Cosic deserves some love too though, he had a crazy career. First ever foreign born player to be named All-American while he was playing at BYU in the early 70s (after already playing club basketball in Yugoslavia and winning an Olympic silver medal) and then returned to Yugoslavia where he dominated in club basketball and won a gold medal in his later career at the 1980 Olympics. Ended being Croatia's first ambassador to the USA after the split of the country and then died of cancer while in the US. He's an absolute god in Croatia, and I'll see kids regularly here playing basketball in the summer with throwback Yugoslavia Cosic jerseys ... maybe even more often than Kukoc or Petrovic ones.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
Can you imagine if there was a Russian player that went to Georgia Tech, beat Kansas in the tournament, and was drafted in the lottery? We'd have to start a new board for vad.
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lol, fair enough ... the thing is, Belov to the older generation that saw him live is undoutably the best European player ever (pre-Dirk). How much that is weighted in modern times, I haven't the foggiest clue.
 
bmoneydeac said:
Just need RJ to come in here and talk about Arvidis schooling DRob in the Olympics.
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That '88 Soviet team was fucking loaded, and they were grown ass men playing American college kids. Sarunas Marciulionis and Sabonis were stars, but Rimas Kurtinaitis was a fucking 28 year old top level wing and he just absolutely torched the US. That was the point where USA Basketball finally said "fuck it, we'll bring the big boys and beat your ass back to the stone age" with the Dream Team.

Of course it's on Youtube, the entire game. Pretty amazing watch (young Danny Manning alert!):

 
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bmoneydeac said:
I'm putting my money on Toni Kukoc giving it to that Russian fella in a game of one on one.
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Kukoc is an interesting name because in terms of nba stats he is pretty comparable to Manu. Now Manu trumps him when you throw in olympics
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Parker does have a Finals MVP on his resume though, but no gold medal. My guess is both get in at the end of the day. You could just put two small statues on the back of the Duncan statue.
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Both probably ends up being right. Parker also has 4 more All star appearances and 2 more all NBA team selections plus that finals MVP
 
Using nothing but NBA numbers, Basketball Reference has Tony Parker as a 94% likelihood to make the Hall of Fame (just ahead of Pau Gasol actually) (there are 0 eligible players ahead of him that aren't already in the Hall of Fame).

Manu is listed as a 20% chance, but as mentioned above, the calculations are based on nothing but NBA numbers. There are several players in the Hall of Fame with worse NBA numbers than Manu (but none recently). As most folks have indicated earlier, Manu is getting in easily (IMO) based on a combination of international and NBA credentials. The fact that he is a great ambassador for basketball and is extremely well-liked will help as well.
 
ibleedgoldandblack said:
Using nothing but NBA numbers, Basketball Reference has Tony Parker as a 94% likelihood to make the Hall of Fame (just ahead of Pau Gasol actually) (there are 0 eligible players ahead of him that aren't already in the Hall of Fame).

Manu is listed as a 20% chance, but as mentioned above, the calculations are based on nothing but NBA numbers. There are several players in the Hall of Fame with worse NBA numbers than Manu (but none recently). As most folks have indicated earlier, Manu is getting in easily (IMO) based on a combination of international and NBA credentials. The fact that he is a great ambassador for basketball and is extremely well-liked will help as well.
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Perfect. This is the response I was looking for. I think I was viewing him too much through his NBA numbers. But I get his international stuff plays in and it should.
 
ibleedgoldandblack said:
Using nothing but NBA numbers, Basketball Reference has Tony Parker as a 94% likelihood to make the Hall of Fame (just ahead of Pau Gasol actually) (there are 0 eligible players ahead of him that aren't already in the Hall of Fame).

Manu is listed as a 20% chance, but as mentioned above, the calculations are based on nothing but NBA numbers. There are several players in the Hall of Fame with worse NBA numbers than Manu (but none recently). As most folks have indicated earlier, Manu is getting in easily (IMO) based on a combination of international and NBA credentials. The fact that he is a great ambassador for basketball and is extremely well-liked will help as well.
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That's a pretty donk metric if Tony Parker is ahead of Lebron
 
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