Physician screwing over my handicapped friend.

[pourdeac]

Just looking quickly, here's one of many places that discusses the (important) difference between physical dependence and addiction: Opioids: Addiction vs. Dependence

"Although we tend to think of opioids when we talk about physical dependence and withdrawal, a number of other drugs not associated with addiction can also result in physical dependence (i.e., antidepressants, beta blockers, corticosteroids, etc.) and can trigger unpleasant withdrawal symptoms if stopped abruptly."

Antidepressants and steroids are certainly associated with addiction so....I'm not sure what they're talking about. The article uses terms like "craving" which is impossible to actually define because it's driven by many factors and is different between individuals.

If one defines addiction from strictly an impulsivity point of view and completely chooses to separate any physical effects of a compound with addiction, both of which seem to be the way the article (and I assume you) define things, then sure one could claim there's a difference. That's not how the addiction research community defines them in general. Most would probably say there is a physical dependency/addiction to the drug, and that controlled use and dosing schedules limits the potential for abuse post-drug taking. Addiction to something doesn't necessarily means it's abused, and visa versa.

Abuse is also hard to define, and often includes things like "destructive behavior". Two people could be taking the exact same compound the same way, but in one case it's making their personality change in a negative way and the other case it's helping them cope with pain...one would be abuse and the other not...the way many define them.

The risks of abusing these drugs are certainly high relative to most clinically used compounds.

 

[Marietta Deac]

I would recommend he get a second opinion from another MD as well as looking into alternative therapies. Some MD's are more open minded than others in regards to differnet treatments. Also, I wouldn't tell the doc necessarily how he became paralyzed other than car crash. Don't want to introduce any bias into the treatment.

 

[TheTwinAndreBen]

I would recommend that you and your friend stop being white trash burdens on society.

 

[dmcheatw]

I would recommend that you and your friend stop being white trash burdens on society.

hey do u have any other screen names you use?

 

[ConnorEl]

Again, from a clinical standpoint, the distinction (between physical dependence and addiction) is very important. Anyone involved in the regular and expert prescribing of opioids can tell you this.

Just google addiction vs physical dependence.

Or google addiction medicine addiction vs dependence

 

[pourdeac]

Your concern seems to be that the abuse potential for the synthetics drugs makes their use potentially unsafe. That I agree with, but that is not the same as saying the substance itself is dangerous. That's saying it's misuse is dangerous. Those are two different things. This is as good as I can articulate it.

Behavioral toxicity is just as bad as a biological/chemical toxicity if it leads to death. You are for some reason choosing to ignore the former as it pertains to the statistics of shortening lives. Not everyone becomes abused to these drugs and certainly proper use and monitoring mitigates the potential for abuse. But not everyone experiences liver toxicity to many drugs and likewise proper use and monitoring can also mitigate the risk of tissue damage. In both cases, not mitigating the risk of death...often ends in pre-mature death. In both cases, those deaths negatively affects the stats for shortening lives.

Re: heroin. I misread your original post. I thought you were claiming we could solve the clinical opiate problem with heroin.

 

[pourdeac]

Again, from a clinical standpoint, the distinction (between physical dependence and addiction) is very important. Anyone involved in the regular and expert prescribing of opioids can tell you this.

And practicing MDs tend to define things differently than addiction researchers/science, and the former is all you'll get from Google.

 

[dmcheatw]

Behavioral toxicity is just as bad as a biological/chemical toxicity if it leads to death.

i agree, but the % chance, the "if," is the operative word.

You are for some reason choosing to ignore the former as it pertains to the statistics of shortening lives.

No, I was point out they're two different arguments.

Not everyone becomes abused to these drugs and certainly proper use and monitoring mitigates the potential for abuse. But not everyone experiences liver toxicity to many drugs and likewise proper use and monitoring can also mitigate the risk of tissue damage. In both cases, not mitigating the risk of death...often ends in pre-mature death. In both cases, those deaths negatively affects the stats for shortening lives.

Often? actually for how much opiates are used, OD resulting in death is rare, not frequent, and certainly not legitimate grounds to deny the drug to someone in pain. I'm not even sure it was even possible to have a fatal OD before the man made stuff because people would just pass out from the smoke.

Re: heroin. I misread your original post. I thought you were claiming we could solve the clinical opiate problem with heroin.

I do not believe there is a clinical opiate problem of any significance in the U.S. to begin with. That is the only thing we don't agree on that I can tell. Well, that and possibly what you think constitutes a good enough reason to deny someone these medications. It appears I'm much less concerned about, and much more open to their use than you...it's more a value judgement as both of our opinions could be supported pretty easily in this instance. Obviously I think my opinion to be better supported, but the addiction potential being reason for caution is an easy argument to make and not one I disagree with.

 

[ConnorEl]

And practicing MDs tend to define things differently than addiction researchers/science, and the former is all you'll get from Google.

OK...I admit I'm speaking here about important distinctions from a clinical standpoint. Sort of trying to address the real world of opioid effects and prescribing.

 

[TheTwinAndreBen]

hey do u have any other screen names you use?

Yes, I also post as Marquee Moon.