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Physician screwing over my handicapped friend.

The posters who feel this man, imaginary or not, deserves a life of pain are soulless fucks.

If he were, say, texting and driving and crashed - would he still deserve a life of pain?

What about eating and driving and lost control?

What if we're sober but exhausted?

What if he neglected his tires or something and crashed? What level/length of pain does he deserve for that?

Please enlighten us all on how much pain and suffering is appropriate for the human mistake that causes one's affliction.

i know, I know, drunk driving is akin to raping a baby in a church while stomping its mother to death. We have a bunch of perfect angels posting here who have figured out what mistake-makers deserve pain-wise for their mistakes...my bad.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
Oh yeah by all means hide important health information from your doctor to get the prescription you want. You definitely know way more about the potential effects of the hardcore pain meds than most pain doctors.
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the first sentence is a fact of life, and damn good advice, especially if the guy is in legit pain--we already know for a that having marijuana in his system precludes him from getting a completely unrelated medicine in the eyes of his current MDs.

sentence two is something i didn't say, and in fact said the opposite of. keep reading and maybe you'll find something i said that's actually controversial.

hey BBD did you ever use a substance someone told you not to? is that past relevant when you go see your dr and ar asked as as part of SOP? do you volunteer all the things you've consumed to him/her? if not, what makes you think it's okay to not show them that personal info? how do you determine what's "important health information?"

My Dr's list of current medications is always off in either dosage or drugs (usually both) whenever I go in. been that way for years and years. nobody really cares beyond liability purposes for most all drugs. and these are drugs i'm currently taking not whatever i may have had in the past, which again is generally NOT "important health information."

IDK more than a Dr. but i probably know more than you. if asked, he can choose whether he wants to answer honestly, but to volunteer information about possible past drug use in this scenario is like volunteering your girlfriend how many women you slept with in the past - it does no good and it's not relevant.

at least my post was helpful. not sure what you're trying to accomplish.
 
WakeandBake said:
The posters who feel this man, imaginary or not, deserves a life of pain are soulless fucks.

If he were, say, texting and driving and crashed - would he still deserve a life of pain?

What about eating and driving and lost control?

What if we're sober but exhausted?

What if he neglected his tires or something and crashed? What level/length of pain does he deserve for that?

Please enlighten us all on how much pain and suffering is appropriate for the human mistake that causes one's affliction.

i know, I know, drunk driving is akin to raping a baby in a church while stomping its mother to death. We have a bunch of perfect angels posting here who have figured out what mistake-makers deserve pain-wise for their mistakes...my bad.
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I don't see people saying that he deserves a life of pain. Just that they don't want him to get hooked on narcotics while on government assistance.

And I also see people saying that he should check out ALL options for pain control, not just prescription drugs
 
dmcheatw said:
IDK more than a Dr. but i probably know more than you. if asked, he can choose whether he wants to answer honestly, but to volunteer information about possible past drug use in this scenario is like volunteering your girlfriend how many women you slept with in the past - it does no good and it's not relevant.
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No, it's more like if you got herpes from sleeping around in your past life, and then telling your girlfriend that because you're honest and want her to have all the information necessary.

And I'm betting I know more about treatment of Spinal Cord Injuries than you do.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
No, it's more like if you got herpes from sleeping around in your past life, and then telling your girlfriend that because you're honest and want her to have all the information necessary.

And I'm betting I know more about treatment of Spinal Cord Injuries than you do.
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1) no, it's not like that. in general you don't tell your girlfriend how many other girls you have slept with. if you have a diagnosed, uncured venereal disease, then it's no longer a general thing or a matter of SOP or something that happened in the past, the girl actually needs to know (about the venereal disease not how many women you've had). The distinction between specific need to know and general questions to satisfy due diligence and liability criteria is plain to me.

past illicit drug use is going to have no bearing on how the opiate interacts with his system in this case, which is why it's not the important medical information you claim. being forward is only going to hurt his cause, as we've already seen. current or future intended drug use the Dr. needs to know about theoretically (theoretically your dr. needs to know if you're taking fish oil, or any other dietary supplement if that tells you anything about exactly what is need to know or not), but in practice it's just going to hurt him - even if he takes downers unprescribed we're talking ab at most a 17.5mg increase in oxy (oral) to start off...that won't make any tangible difference in respiratory OD...if he takes enough downers to die on a 2.5mg perc he was gonna die anyway on a 20mg oxy almost certainly. 17.5 vs. 2.5 of oral oxy is a lot for pain, very little in terms of abuse.

if he's got a family doc he's known for years and he really has a concern over an illicit drug interaction he could ask that dr. (not the same as the prescribing dr.) verbally, in person, in private, but frankly we're talking about ridiculously small chances of medical complications as a result of increasing his oxycodone dose...even smaller with a bit of research.

2) the fact that you know more about spinal cord injuries than me is true, i know nothing, never said i did, and is not relevant to the discussion. that said, why bitch about him getting addicted on your dime since you're aware he's probably got 5-15 years to live.

BeachBumDeac said:
I don't see people saying that he deserves a life of pain. Just that they don't want him to get hooked on narcotics while on government assistance.

And I also see people saying that he should check out ALL options for pain control, not just prescription drugs
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some of the "advice" on this thread would likely lead to a life of pain. a lot more of the "advice" is way ill informed, and filled with implicit preconceptions/prejudices/judgements. whether he uses the alternative suggestions in this thread or not, he's going to be on opiates no matter how you look at it.

i have a smoker friend who disclosed his habit to his Dr. and now he can't even be on the kidney waiting list until a certain period of being clean from marijuana. if he hadn't disclosed that, he wouldn't be the dead man walking that he currently is. if in this example, if glass's friend wants to go out of his way to volunteer, or even just be honest if asked, about past illicit drug use, don't be surprised if he gets screwed at the end of the day. not all questions can or should be answered honestly from the PoV of the answerer, it's just a fact.
 
dmcheatw said:
2) the fact that you know more about spinal cord injuries than me is true, i know nothing, never said i did, and is not relevant to the discussion. that said, why bitch about him getting addicted on your dime since you're aware he's probably got 5-15 years to live.
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Wow. No, I'm not aware of that at all. If he doesn't get any medical treatment, doesn't take any initiative beyond just popping pills, then yeah maybe he just has 5-15 years. But if he takes an active role in his own health, educates himself on the treatments available, and works hard at it, there's no reason he can't live another 40-50 years.
 
dmcheatw said:
past illicit drug use is going to have no bearing on how the opiate interacts with his system in this case, which is why it's not the important medical information you claim. being forward is only going to hurt his cause, as we've already seen. current or future intended drug use the Dr. needs to know about theoretically (theoretically your dr. needs to know if you're taking fish oil, or any other dietary supplement if that tells you anything about exactly what is need to know or not), but in practice it's just going to hurt him - even if he takes downers unprescribed we're talking ab at most a 17.5mg increase in oxy (oral) to start off...that won't make any tangible difference in respiratory OD...if he takes enough downers to die on a 2.5mg perc he was gonna die anyway on a 20mg oxy almost certainly. 17.5 vs. 2.5 of oral oxy is a lot for pain, very little in terms of abuse.
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Past drug use, especially if it's been addictive, definitely changes the physiology of how your brain reacts to certain drugs.
 
good discussion going on here. very good points made about him disclosing his past drug use, i had no idea that being a marijuana user would affect something like being on a donor list. that's beyond fucked up. and we will definitely be seeking out (cheap) alternative sources of pain relief.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
Wow. No, I'm not aware of that at all. If he doesn't get any medical treatment, doesn't take any initiative beyond just popping pills, then yeah maybe he just has 5-15 years. But if he takes an active role in his own health, educates himself on the treatments available, and works hard at it, there's no reason he can't live another 40-50 years.
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love how the topic keeps shifting. here are the statistics I was using:

http://www.berkelbike.com/sci_mortality_en/

but as I said i know nothing about spinal cord injuries. it could be you're supposed to add the numbers, which would yield the statistical average that you said.

just so you know though, the thought process behind the argument quoted above still isn't very valid, as it assumes an individual has way more control over their health than they typically actually do in practice. it's like saying poor people just need to take an active role and they won't be poor! surely that's an argument you can understand.

BeachBumDeac said:
Past drug use, especially if it's been addictive, definitely changes the physiology of how your brain reacts to certain drugs.
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agreed, though it doesn't logically have anything to do with what we were originally discussing. my point still stands...next time at the dr. remember to tell him about the viagra you get from the internet, and the alcohol you drank when you were 19 years old, and the alleve you took for your back last year, because that's important medical information by your reasoning.
 
zqglass said:
good discussion going on here. very good points made about him disclosing his past drug use, i had no idea that being a marijuana user would affect something like being on a donor list. that's beyond fucked up. and we will definitely be seeking out (cheap) alternative sources of pain relief.
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Donated organs are precious items. Doctors. Hospitals and insurance companies want to make sure they are going to candidates who will follow every instruction and step to make sure they get the best possible outcomes.

Illegal drug use and/or addiction is a sign that a patient might not follow through on their end of the deal. Therefore, no organ for them.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
Donated organs are precious items. Doctors. Hospitals and insurance companies want to make sure they are going to candidates who will follow every instruction and step to make sure they get the best possible outcomes.

Illegal drug use and/or addiction is a sign that a patient might not follow through on their end of the deal. Therefore, no organ for them.
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Yep.

only thing I don't agree with is how that's targeted, but the guy who eats 5 cheesburgers, or the guy who has 20 speeding tickets, or the guy who takes on added stress at the job...none of those people are categorized in the same way. but yeah i agree with why he's not allowed to get a kidney, just don't agree he was better off with the full disclosure approach he took b/c he thought it was in his best interest...it wasn't.
 
dmcheatw said:
love how the topic keeps shifting. here are the statistics I was using:

http://www.berkelbike.com/sci_mortality_en/

but as I said i know nothing about spinal cord injuries. it could be you're supposed to add the numbers, which would yield the statistical average that you said.

just so you know though, the thought process behind the argument quoted above still isn't very valid, as it assumes an individual has way more control over their health than they typically actually do in practice. it's like saying poor people just need to take an active role and they won't be poor! surely that's an argument you can understand.



agreed, though it doesn't logically have anything to do with what we were originally discussing. my point still stands...next time at the dr. remember to tell him about the viagra you get from the internet, and the alcohol you drank when you were 19 years old, and the alleve you took for your back last year, because that's important medical information by your reasoning.
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1) Yeah, you read the table wrong:

Example from the table: An average American of 30 years has a life expectancy of 78.9 years. So he will still live in average 48.9 years. If he incurs SCI, for example Thoracic 8 and thus becomes paraplegic, his life expectancy drops by 11.5 years to 67.4 years and he has in averaged only 37.4 years to live.
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So a paraplegic who is injured at age 20 has an average life expectancy of 46.3 years after the injury.


2) I haven't done the first one (who buys viagra off the internet?), I did tell the doctor about the second one (since I've been drinking, I've said I drink alcohol when I'm at checkups), and I tell the doctor about taking ibuprofen for headaches.

What am I missing?
 
hehe, okay, well i think we both need more alcohol and less debate on a sat night.

well if you tell your doc all those things, then technically that's the most responsible and safe approach, just saying it wouldn't matter if you did or didn't, especially if none of it is currently in your blood stream.

as far as viagra goes, i'll just say that no matter how you go about procuring it, it ain't just for old people with ED. :D
 
Chronic pain is a bitch. Sorry to hear of your friend's situation.

The management of chronic pain in a situation such as you describe is not simple. Opioids (the preferred term) may play an important role, but are not likely to be a panacea and certainly can cause problems. Caution in their use is appropriate. A multidisciplinary and expert approach is called for in a situation like you describe.

Might want to check out this place: Carolina's Pain Institute
 
dmcheatw said:
hehe, okay, well i think we both need more alcohol and less debate on a sat night.

well if you tell your doc all those things, then technically that's the most responsible and safe approach, just saying it wouldn't matter if you did or didn't, especially if none of it is currently in your blood stream.

as far as viagra goes, i'll just say that no matter how you go about procuring it, it ain't just for old people with ED. :D
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I mean, if you see your doctor as an adversary who just needs the bare minimum information to write you the prescription you want, then yeah I can see why it wouldn't matter. If, however, you see your doctor as a partner in making important health decisions, then maybe they do need some more information on your whole health picture.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
I don't see people saying that he deserves a life of pain. Just that they don't want him to get hooked on narcotics while on government assistance.

And I also see people saying that he should check out ALL options for pain control, not just prescription drugs
Click to expand...

I don't think you have read the thread very closely.
 
dmcheatw said:
someone show me evidence that opiates take years off your life (the fact that people who use opiates (like paraplegics) average shorter lives is, in itself, unsurprising. Also that recreational opiate use leads to OD thus shortening life is not surprising. Neither are people doing unsupervised injections dying earlier. Someone show me how the effect of the opiate itself is causing shorter lifespans?) The biggest problem (though admittedly not the only problem) with opiates is the invention of the hypodermic needle + no way to be sure what doses you're getting leading to ODs, and we as a society could fix the latter problem pretty easily w/heroin.
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The major problem with opiates is tolerance to the drug which leads to higher and higher required doses. When that happens, the therapeutic window shrinks making the use of them riskier because the dose is closer to one shutting down respiration and OD. Controlled studies to date show they don't shorten lives when used properly. As we know, that often doesn't happen leading to risky drug taking. Opiates also reduce immune system function and can promote increased virulence of certain pathogenic microbes. The result of these effects is unknown and may not mean much because it's treatable in most cases, but the emergence of superbugs could significantly change those risks.

Do you seriously think heroin use doesn't lead to ODs? The reason the prescribed opiates have higher OD numbers is access more than anything. They're easy to get. The rising danger is people playing Breaking Bad and selling drugs like methylfentanyl which is 5000 times more potent than morphine. The profits look great, but users don't just do 5000th the dose and they end up ODing.
 
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