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Pro Life / Pro Choice Debate

Because telling people what is happening will make it harder to get their national abortion ban.
 
I do think the smarter ones are worried about a voter backlash they fear is coming over this issue. Even Trump is at least smart enough to recognize that it's a big problem for the GOP. But they're all trapped in the sense that their "pro-life" base isn't going to back off this issue. Hannity (who's been promoting the anti-abortion position for years on his show) says that it will be "fixed" in a couple of weeks, but the AZ legislature has already rejected two Democratic attempts to overturn the ban. You reap what you sow and all that.

 
Trump is going to lose an election and then go to jail because the justices he put on the supreme court overturned Roe V. Wade. This issue is absolutely toxic for them and its all their fault.
 
I heard an AZ state rep on the MTP podcast yesterday. He claimed to be "very pro life" but also thought the 1864 abortion ban needed to be reversed. His only objection to essentially codifying Roe was that there was an exception allowed for the mental health of the mother. *ETA: He said a 15 week ban. Regardless, not sure how 15 weeks is okay but 22 is horrible.

It is almost like being "very pro life" really means they want abortion to be safe, legal, and rare.

This is the dog that has caught the car.

His website for congress:

  • Arizona values – I’m proudly pro-life, with exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother. As a son of a single mom, I know she worked so hard to raise her family. Our state must step up to support women and children. I will reject the extreme voices on this issue, including late-term and taxpayer-funded abortions. Our state also has the obligation to stand up for those who cannot stand up for themselves, especially the vulnerable and elderly.
 
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Unfortunately this debate is going exactly as they planned:

1. Pitch something so radical that it shouldn't pass anywhere (oops, it actually did)
2. Act like you're the reasonable ones for coming back from your absurdly radical stance of 0 tolerance to accept rape and incest cases
3. Profit: Still get the radically conservative 0 - 12 week bans

I'm not giving them step 2, but I've already seen people start focussing on the rape/incest aspect of this. That inherently cedes ground from the 12 week freedom everyone had to plan their own family before Roe was overturned.
 
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Demonwolverine said:
Unfortunately this debate is going exactly as they planned:

1. Pitch something so radical that it shouldn't pass anywhere (oops, it actually did)
2. Act like you're the reasonable ones for coming back from your absurdly radical stance of 0 tolerance to accept rape and incest cases
3. Profit: Still get the radically conservative 0 - 12 week bans

I'm not giving them step 2, but I've already seen people start focussing on the rape/incest aspect of this. That inherently cedes ground from the 12 week freedom everyone had to plan their own family before Roe was overturned.
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I'm not sure this is going as they planned, as I do not think there was any plan. This is the dog that caught the car and it has gone badly for Republicans.
 
Ball State Deac said:
I'm not sure this is going as they planned, as I do not think there was any plan. This is the dog that caught the car and it has gone badly for Republicans.
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Yeah, I don't think that pro-choice supporters are going to be mollified or fooled on this issue. The GOP got their Supreme Court supermajority and got exactly what they wanted in overturning Roe, and all it's done so far is bite them in the ass in state after state, including even some deep red ones. And if they try to appease abortion rights supporters they run the real risk of angering their pro-life base that not only is thrilled with all of these draconian abortion laws, but wants and expects Republicans to keep pushing ahead with a national abortion ban and going after birth control access and no-fault divorce. Good luck trying to successfully navigate that minefield.
 
One key to remember is that majority of abortions take place between 6-15 so a 15 week “compromise” gives up the game for hardcore anti-abortion voters. Republicans who move too far in that direction risk alienating their base.

Dobbs has changed the political alignment. Republicans are now divided on abortion. The fervent religious rhetoric about the sanctity of life, abortion as genocide, etc can’t unify the party around the obvious political reality that their views on abortion are unpopular.

On top of that, Democrats are united. It’s not taboo for a Dem president to be all-in on reproductive rights (yeah, Biden won’t straight up say abortion). Pledging to codify Roe won’t hurt a Dem running for office.

Another issue is it’s not just about abortion anymore. It’s about IVF and broader family planning and health care. One thing that bothers me is Dems and pro-abortion forces won’t appeal directly to men. Run ads with a UF student getting a “we need to talk” text from his ex he broke up with 6 weeks ago. Run ads featuring a want-to-be father struggling with the stress of IVF. Run ads with a white coat 50-something year old white male gynecologist explaining basic facts about abortion. Make it a men’s issue too. That’s the next phase.
 
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This doesn't address the actual legal issues or the issues in society. It is, what Democrats have always used it for is a political issue.

RBG said Roe was badly written. Casey was a compromise. Dobbs is legally accurate and R's have to deal with riding the tiger that is now biting them.

95 precent of abortions happen before 16 weeks. Most European countries ban at 12 weeks.

A 15 week ban is hardly curtailing rights, but keeps the issue alive and PP's coffers filed.
 
Ball State Deac said:
I heard an AZ state rep on the MTP podcast yesterday. He claimed to be "very pro life" but also thought the 1864 abortion ban needed to be reversed. His only objection to essentially codifying Roe was that there was an exception allowed for the mental health of the mother. *ETA: He said a 15 week ban. Regardless, not sure how 15 weeks is okay but 22 is horrible.

It is almost like being "very pro life" really means they want abortion to be safe, legal, and rare.

This is the dog that has caught the car.

His website for congress:

  • Arizona values – I’m proudly pro-life, with exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother. As a son of a single mom, I know she worked so hard to raise her family. Our state must step up to support women and children. I will reject the extreme voices on this issue, including late-term and taxpayer-funded abortions. Our state also has the obligation to stand up for those who cannot stand up for themselves, especially the vulnerable and elderly.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to point out how this sentence demonstrates the silliness of the term "pro-life."

"I'm pro-life with exceptions for rape and instances where it will result in death."

Replace the term with "anti-abortion," THEN it makes sense.

But yes, Republicans are making asses out of themselves trying to find the PR spin that will make taking away rights less unpopular.
 
centerdeac said:
This doesn't address the actual legal issues or the issues in society. It is, what Democrats have always used it for is a political issue.

RBG said Roe was badly written. Casey was a compromise. Dobbs is legally accurate and R's have to deal with riding the tiger that is now biting them.

95 precent of abortions happen before 16 weeks. Most European countries ban at 12 weeks.

A 15 week ban is hardly curtailing rights, but keeps the issue alive and PP's coffers filed.
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A ban of health care options does actually curtail rights.
 
avalon said:
Just wanted to point out how this sentence demonstrates the silliness of the term "pro-life."

"I'm pro-life with exceptions for rape and instances where it will result in death."

Replace the term with "anti-abortion," THEN it makes sense.

But yes, Republicans are making asses out of themselves trying to find the PR spin that will make taking away rights less unpopular.
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Exactly. I life begins at conception, you can have no exceptions for rape, for example. I can see it logically consistent if is the life of the mother, as you have a hobson's choice there.
 
Kerri Lake is setting herself on fire in Arizona over the abortion issue. In the governors debate 2 years ago, she specifically said she supports the 1864 law but this week after the chaos she released a video that could only be described as the the definition of pro-choice. There are rumors that the RNC might cut her loose and just concentrate on other states and cede Arizona to democrats.
 
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