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Public Schools: Success Stories and Reform

Looks like the for profit schools saw all that money that Uncle Sam was handing out and wanted a big slice. I had never really thought about that type of school before, but I assumed they were legit instead of a scam to defraud the government.
 
knowell said:
Looks like the for profit schools saw all that money that Uncle Sam was handing out and wanted a big slice. I had never really thought about that type of school before, but I assumed they were legit instead of a scam to defraud the government.
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Basically. But conservatives call foul at any attempts to derail the money train in favor of traditional colleges and universities they perceive to be dominated by liberals.

For-profits spend a large percentage of their revenues on marketing. I have friends who have worked in marketing for for-profits and they hated it. A disproportionate number of their staff are minorities in order to sell their "education" to minorities. One area for-profits excel is their flexibility. They offer the opportunity to start classes within a week or two rather than wait until August, January, or May. More colleges and universities need to adopt a more flexible model.
 
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Why do conservatives demonize people like her?
 
Why can't PH comment on anything without calling Republicans the devil? Some things we will never know.
 
knowell said:
Looks like the for profit schools saw all that money that Uncle Sam was handing out and wanted a big slice. I had never really thought about that type of school before, but I assumed they were legit instead of a scam to defraud the government.
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TuffaloDeac10 said:
Online for-profits are pretty energetic in recruiting active duty servicemembers who can't expect to go to brick-and-mortar Old State U. They suck up a lot of Post-9/11 GI Bill money.
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I worked for a for-profit technical college as an admissions recruiter for a couple months a few years back. It seemed like a fun job, with great pay and flexible hours.

I quit about five months in after I truly realized how parasitic and disgusting the industry is. It is 100% designed to attract low income, at-risk and veterans students who have access to $20-25K+ of federal loans. All for the same training and education that they could get a local CC.

The kicker was when I realized through a slip-of-the-tongue on a conference call that they were probably selling the information that I was honestly acquiring from potential HS students

I resigned the next day.

There is a reason why the people who run the industry are scummy salesmen and lawyers.
 
That's basically what my friends who worked in the industry said. A few years ago, I was in a conference session with a grad student at Emory who did a fascinating study of the experiences of people who worked at for-profits. They also echoed the same sentiments. She's a writer for The Atlantic now. I'm sure 923 will post her work eventually.

As I posted above, the lesson learned from for-profits is that colleges and universities need to be more flexible. One of the CCs I've worked with has a fantastic open entry/open exit program in their engineering technology program. Students can start whenever they want and complete modules for course credit. Labs are open 24/7 and there are instructors staffing the labs most of the day who are available to assist students as needed.

I'm not saying every program should do this, but the semester format is outdated at best and not competitive with the needs of the marketplace. It's hard to expect most working students to keep the same hours from January to April so they can keep the same courses. I've had more than a few students come up to me halfway through the semester and tell me they got a promotion at work or got a better job so they're not sure they can keep coming to my class.
 
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Deacon923 said:
Wrangor, what is your position on Mississippi's Initiative 42 (on the ballot today)? http://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2015/10/17/school-funding-major-issue-ballot/73529870/
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I voted for it, but not because I thought it was a good political solution. I was really surprised at how close the vote ended up being. I don't think the judicial branch should have control of educational appropriations, but if any of you know my hot button issues, educational funding is one of them. Most of the people against it gave some sort of reason like 'the money is just going to be wasted anyway' or 'poor administration is going to eat up all of the funds' and to be honest I don't disagree with them, but in my opinion if there is an area of our state where we should spend until we waste, it is education. We aren't going to rise in the rankings by starving our educational funding (200m short of promised funds this year and we have shorted the public schools 1.7 billion in the past 7 years). I think we should overfund, and then look for administrative waste. We have way too many superintendents and other similar jobs, but those aren't the jobs that are cut in this educational sequestration anyway. We should be paying our teachers much more than they are paid now, and administration should be paid less. We have a small pond to fish in with regards to acquiring quality teachers in large part because our educational system has been a failure for decades. The only way out of this mess (in my opinion) is to make being a teacher more enticing. The best way I know to do that is by offering to pay more to teachers, reducing administrative positions, and giving more local control.

But with regards to 42/42A, I voted for it, even though I think judicial distribution is an awful idea. The Republicans played some pretty dirty politics in there attempt to get the measure defeated. Instead of just having a yes/no vote, an individual was required to first vote yes/no, and then if you voted yes you were required to state (in a convoluted manner) whether those new funds should legislatively controlled or judicial. If you chose legislatively you were essentially voting to keep the status quo (which is the same as a no vote in the first box). I think that probably confused a lot of voters. It turns out that it was a 52 (against) to 48 (in favor) vote, which is really close. I just want us to fund our system. We have decreased in spending about $2,500 per student over the past 5 years and that is a crying shame.

Hopefully the legislature got the message that a large portion of the state is fed up with the underfunding. I am not sure if it will change anything, but I hope that it does. I thought about bringing this up earlier, but wasn't sure if anyone would be interested.
 
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PhDeac said:
That's basically what my friends who worked in the industry said. A few years ago, I was in a conference session with a grad student at Emory who did a fascinating study of the experiences of people who worked at for-profits. They also echoed the same sentiments. She's a writer for The Atlantic now. I'm sure 923 will post her work eventually.

As I posted above, the lesson learned from for-profits is that colleges and universities need to be more flexible. One of the CCs I've worked with has a fantastic open entry/open exit program in their engineering technology program. Students can start whenever they want and complete modules for course credit. Labs are open 24/7 and there are instructors staffing the labs most of the day who are available to assist students as needed.

I'm not saying every program should do this, but the semester format is outdated at best and not competitive with the needs of the marketplace. It's hard to expect most working students to keep the same hours from January to April so they can keep the same courses. I've had more than a few students come up to me halfway through the semester and tell me they got a promotion at work or got a better job so they're not sure they can keep coming to my class.
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Interesting thoughts. How do these modules work? I have never heard of that sort of system. I guess my main question is how do the professors keep from teaching the same material 9 different times a semester?
 
Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be still wiser; teach a righteous man, and he will increase in learning.
 
Wrangor said:
Interesting thoughts. How do these modules work? I have never heard of that sort of system. I guess my main question is how do the professors keep from teaching the same material 9 different times a semester?
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They don't teach it. Students work on the modules and the instructors help them as needed. Students help each other as well. It's not a "sage on the stage" format. The instructor has a desk in the middle of the lab.

Here's a PowerPoint from a presentation by the architect of the program. The Faculty & Staff slide on page 18 explains the faculty role.
http://www.highimpact-tec.org/2015-conference-handouts/Developing-Open-Entry.pdf
 
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It's much easier for a man to learn how to fish while he's being given fish to eat and a place to live while he learns.
 
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