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Reasonable Expectations

RacerDeac said:
So, after 4-5 years, what do you consider success?
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I'll answer both responses in one. I want a postseason appearance next year, preferably NCAA tournament but if not I guess NIT is fine. If NIT in 4, NCAA in year five or it was a bad season. After years 4-5 if we have good seasons those years and Danny is still our coach sustainability is the big thing - being consistently good every year, getting to the postseason, 20+ wins, etc.

If we get to 16-17 wins this year then 20 next year shouldn't be too much to ask in my opinion.

If we largely underachieve 16-17 wins this year then it will be a disappointing season.


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I really feel like some of you have way too high of recruiting expectations.

With teams like UVA, they ARE the state school, they are typically #1 on most kids dream lists (unless we're talking top 10-15 guys).

In NC, we're a small private school whimpering into each season with buckets full of excuses and "bad luck", all while fighting against 2 of the top 3 programs in NCAA basketball HISTORY (plus a 3rd team with multiple national titles to their credit). It is so much fucking harder to get a kid here from NC than it is in other states, unless the kid isn't good enough for Duke or UNC.

So we don't just need a "good recruiter", we need a coach that can COACH UP sub-par players to the level where they can play cohesively against top-tier teams.

Manning has not proven he can do that. Period.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
I'll answer both responses in one. I want a postseason appearance next year, preferably NCAA tournament but if not I guess NIT is fine. If NIT in 4, NCAA in year five or it was a bad season. After years 4-5 if we have good seasons those years and Danny is still our coach sustainability is the big thing - being consistently good every year, getting to the postseason, 20+ wins, etc.

If we get to 16-17 wins this year then 20 next year shouldn't be too much to ask in my opinion.

If we largely underachieve 16-17 wins this year then it will be a disappointing season.


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To get to 16-17 wins in this year's ACC would be overachieving. We don't have the talent to get to 7/8 ACC wins. I'd love to be wrong, but I doubt I will be.

This may be the strongest year ever top to bottom in the ACC and we have gaping holes. We are definitely better this year over last, but the league is much, much stronger.
 
No one is arguing we are as talented as the rest of the league. The issue is whether we are maximizing what we have. Or are we underachieving. At least that is my concern.
 
DeaconSlim2.0 said:
I really feel like some of you have way too high of recruiting expectations.

With teams like UVA, they ARE the state school, they are typically #1 on most kids dream lists (unless we're talking top 10-15 guys).

In NC, we're a small private school whimpering into each season with buckets full of excuses and "bad luck", all while fighting against 2 of the top 3 programs in NCAA basketball HISTORY (plus a 3rd team with multiple national titles to their credit). It is so much fucking harder to get a kid here from NC than it is in other states, unless the kid isn't good enough for Duke or UNC.

So we don't just need a "good recruiter", we need a coach that can COACH UP sub-par players to the level where they can play cohesively against top-tier teams.

Manning has not proven he can do that. Period.
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This.
 
Recruiting expectations can only be too high if it exceeds the levels you've reached in the past. I expect DM to bring in guys like GDO, Skip and Dino "historically" have recruited in the past.

I'd even take the Tacy standard who was very underrated as a recruiter...I'd love a Skip, Rod, Leroy and Schelenberg (sp)

Nobody expects us to recruit like UNC, Duke and Ky...we've proved we don't need to do that to be a top 25 program
 
Shake said:
Recruiting expectations can only be too high if it exceeds the levels you've reached in the past. I expect DM to bring in guys like GDO, Skip and Dino "historically" have recruited in the past.

I'd even take the Tacy standard who was very underrated as a recruiter...I'd love a Skip, Rod, Leroy and Schelenberg (sp)

Nobody expects us to recruit like UNC, Duke and Ky...we've proved we don't need to do that to be a top 25 program
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So much this. Our recruiting was a tier below UNC and Duke for years. Of course what makes it tougher to get there is there are 6 more teams with the advantage of being an ACC school.
 
The point of view some of you have that Manning can't "coach up" players is ridiculous. Since he's been here, he obviously coached up Collins to be a future NBA player. Crawford has improved even though some of you are very negative about him a lot. Dinos has developed an inside game so he's not a one facet player anymore. I don't see how some people refuse to acknowledge the positives and only focus on negative.


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CharlotteDeac1 said:
The point of view some of you have that Manning can't "coach up" players is ridiculous. Since he's been here, he obviously coached up Collins to be a future NBA player. Crawford has improved even though some of you are very negative about him a lot. Dinos has developed an inside game so he's not a one facet player anymore. I don't see how some people refuse to acknowledge the positives and only focus on negative.


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No question but you can't seriously defend his bench coaching.
 
A fair comparison is VT. They were in a similar if not worse position 3 years ago. We will add it up at the end of the year and see how things settle out. 3 years is plenty of time to make serious progress in college basketball....if you hire a strong seasoned coach that can recruit, develop players, and bench coach. Manning is not ready for this level of position. I am sure he is doing the best he can but he should have never been hired in the first place. We should have paid any price for a top tier coach after the last disaster. Instead we just roll on with zero accountability. This falls squarely on Hatch. He can't get out of WS fast enough for me.
 
DeacDaddy said:
What marks the end of the rebuild? If we get to that place and the wins are not there, was it even a rebuild at all? Isn't someone else then going to have to "re-rebuild"?

I get that you guys are encouraged by certain metrics beyond W/L. I see some progress as well. But in my opinion you give far too little weight to wins in your overall assessment. I'm sure you think we give them too much.
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Exactly. Wins are...EVERYTHING.
 
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