Republicans for POTUS, 2016 Edition

[bmoneydeac]

Do you seriously think a person who makes a million dollars a year should pay the same tax rate as a person who makes $50,001/yr?

The person that made 50,001 would pay 14 cents in taxes under the plan, right?

 

[ImTheCaptain]

give the extra dollar to charity

/thread

 

[Wakelaw2006]

I strongly believe in progressive tax rates, so I'm not a fan of Paul's plan philosophically. I don't think it's the magic job creation plan he does and I think it would increase the deficit, not decrease it. Practically, from a tax administration standpoint I also see problems.

All deductions except for a mortgage and charities would be eliminated.

BSD will be so disappointed. Still picking winners and losers based on housing choices - doesn't seem flat or fair to me. Leverage my house to the hilt, and suddenly my 14.5% rate is down to 10% (or whatever). I am in favor (and cannot foresee a situation where I would not be in favor) of keeping the charitable deduction.

All capital purchases would be immediately expensed, ending complicated depreciation schedules.

How would this work? I go out and develop an apartment complex, so I get to deduct the full value of it now? What if I don't have income to use the deduction? Do I get a carry forward? Do I have zero basis in the property the moment I deduct it?

This tax would be levied on revenues minus allowable expenses, such as the purchase of parts, computers and office equipment.

What constitutes "allowable?" Necessary and ordinary business expenses, as currently defined in the code and regs? His examples are clearly much more limited, but I assume they would be similar to current law. If he thinks that can be done with a 1 page code, 1 page of regs, and 1 page return and no IRS or comparable agency, well, good luck.

 

[Wrangor]

Do you seriously think a person who makes a million dollars a year should pay the same tax rate as a person who makes $50,001/yr?

A person making 1,000,000 would pay $145,000 in taxes. A person making 50,001 would pay $0.15. So that tax rate for the person making 50,000 would be paying 0.03% tax rate, while the millionaire would be paying 14.5%. The millionaire would be paying a tax rate that is 483x higher in that scenario. I personally don't have a problem with a higher bracket for 1 million and up, but I would rather have less brackets and less deductions. That was my point. I get your point, but next time you try to make it, please make sure you use a workable scenario.

 

[PhDeac]

The person that made 50,001 would pay 14 cents in taxes under the plan, right?

You've got to be real conservative to not even round up to 15 cents.

Paul's plan sounds nice but it will take 10 seconds before the millionaires complain that they have to pay $137,750 and up while half the country pays less than a buck.

Edit: Or as Wrangor would have put it, 13.775% vs. .003%. It wouldn't solve the "skin in the game" issue conservatives go on and on about.

 

[PhDeac]

A person making 1,000,000 would pay $145,000 in taxes. A person making 50,001 would pay $0.15. So that tax rate for the person making 50,000 would be paying 0.03% tax rate, while the millionaire would be paying 14.5%. The millionaire would be paying a tax rate that is 483x higher in that scenario. I personally don't have a problem with a higher bracket for 1 million and up, but I would rather have less brackets and less deductions. That was my point. I get your point, but next time you try to make it, please make sure you use a workable scenario.

From Rand's website:

"The first $50,000 of income for a family of four would not be taxed."

Nobody pays taxes on the first $50K. Not the millionaires and not the poor.

 

[jhmd2000]

You've got to be real conservative to not even round up to 15 cents.

Paul's plan sounds nice but it will take 10 seconds before the millionaires complain that they have to pay $137,750 and up while half the country pays less than a buck.

If only.

 

[Wrangor]

I'd be fine with it if the $100MM group had like...a 50+% tax rate.

I think anytime you tax someone half of what they are earning you are basically begging them to take their money elsewhere. You could make this plan work, and make everyone happy with a three tier system:

All income taxed (capital gains and income):

Tier One: 50,001 - 999,999: 15%
Tier Two: 1,000,000 - 49,999,999: 25%
Tier Three: 50,000,000 and up: 35%

I like keeping charitable deductions, and I personally like the housing deduct on One primary residence, but could give up the home deduct. Don't think we should give up charitable giving, as I believe that to be very important to our society, and it is something we want to encourage at all costs. But I think something like this could work and garner widespread support. Use this same model for businesses. Small businesses thrive at that rate. If you are making 50 million a year you can afford more taxes. Pretty simple.

 

[Wrangor]

From Rand's website:

"The first $50,000 of income for a family of four would not be taxed."

Nobody pays taxes on the first $50K. Not the millionaires and not the poor.

Right - sorry about that. The factorial would be a mere 458x with your correct number.

 

[PhDeac]

If only.

Well they probably wouldn't pay that after charitable, "charitable," and mortgage deductions.

 

[bmoneydeac]

I strongly believe in progressive tax rates, so I'm not a fan of Paul's plan philosophically. I don't think it's the magic job creation plan he does and I think it would increase the deficit, not decrease it. Practically, from a tax administration standpoint I also see problems.



BSD will be so disappointed. Still picking winners and losers based on housing choices - doesn't seem flat or fair to me. Leverage my house to the hilt, and suddenly my 14.5% rate is down to 10% (or whatever). I am in favor (and cannot foresee a situation where I would not be in favor) of keeping the charitable deduction.



How would this work? I go out and develop an apartment complex, so I get to deduct the full value of it now? What if I don't have income to use the deduction? Do I get a carry forward? Do I have zero basis in the property the moment I deduct it?



What constitutes "allowable?" Necessary and ordinary business expenses, as currently defined in the code and regs? His examples are clearly much more limited, but I assume they would be similar to current law. If he thinks that can be done with a 1 page code, 1 page of regs, and 1 page return and no IRS or comparable agency, well, good luck.

The capex thing is kind of weird. I guess when you sell it you will have crazy gains although that would be offset by your banked loss.

Getting rid of the mortgage deduction seems like it would hurt the housing industry pretty bad.

 

[ONW]

This is kind of infuriating.

 

[Wakelaw2006]

The capex thing is kind of weird. I guess when you sell it you will have crazy gains although that would be offset by your banked loss.

Getting rid of the mortgage deduction seems like it would hurt the housing industry pretty bad.

I don't disagree. I just think it's disingenuous to call your tax flat and fair when one of the most unfair (in my opinion) deductions is still allowable. Don't get me wrong, I love my mortgage interest deduction and I think this is proof of its sacred cow status, but I don't think there is much of a justification for giving me a tax break because I decided to buy my condo, rather than rent it.

Doing away with the mortgage interest deduction was BallStateDeac's goal in life (well, prior to buying a house and having twins), so I like to bring it up to see if I can get him back on his rant

 

[deacvision7]

I think anytime you tax someone half of what they are earning you are basically begging them to take their money elsewhere. You could make this plan work, and make everyone happy with a three tier system:

All income taxed (capital gains and income):

Tier One: 50,001 - 999,999: 15%
Tier Two: 1,000,000 - 49,999,999: 25%
Tier Three: 50,000,000 and up: 35%

I like keeping charitable deductions, and I personally like the housing deduct on One primary residence, but could give up the home deduct. Don't think we should give up charitable giving, as I believe that to be very important to our society, and it is something we want to encourage at all costs. But I think something like this could work and garner widespread support. Use this same model for businesses. Small businesses thrive at that rate. If you are making 50 million a year you can afford more taxes. Pretty simple.

With some tweaks I think I could reach a compromise with you on this one. In other words, I don't hate it and can see some real positives to it.

 

[ONW]

This is even more infuriating.

 

[PhDeac]

I'm meh on corporate taxes. I'm sure there's stuff I'm missing but I'd rather just have much higher tax rates for higher earners than for corporations to spend a lot of money to avoid paying taxes.

 

[ONW]

 

[ONW]

Ok, heading to meditate.

 

[ChrisL68]

This is kind of infuriating.

Most of that is due to the introduction and increases in business structures that tax corporations under the individual tax code. Partnerships, S-Corporations and LLCs. I see this posted by left leaning advocacy groups, but without factoring that in, or even mentioning it as the primary reason for the shift, it is propaganda meant to get average joes to hate rich people and corporations.

 

[ChrisL68]

Ok, heading to meditate.

Just about every other country in the world doesn't even attempt to tax foreign profits. Since the US does tax worldwide profits, there has been established a deferral mechanism that allows US companies to avoid this tax as long as they don't repatriate this money. That way a US company can compete in country A with local company that is paying country A's tax rate. It's funny that Bernie Sanders never wants us to follow a territorial tax system like most of the democratic socialist countries in Europe.

I am much more concerned about structuring our tax code so that foreign companies that do business in the US are properly taxed rather than making US domiciled companies less competitive worldwide.