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Sam Hartman

Fuck Your Couch said:
i don't think sam would've gone to ND without the ability to cash in something from it (tho it wouldn't have been crazy to want to play in a more pro style offense for 1 year), but if NIL didn't exist he wouldn't be coming back to wake either. he would've just gone pro. he's been here 5 years, and no one has expected him back for a long time.
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IMO Sam had to do this if he wants to play in the NFL. If he tries to go now he'll be seen as a system QB. A year in another system, especially with a high-profile program with lots of national exposure, can only enhance his chances.
 
Sam can go take the bag, he should go take the bag. He is choosing to take that bag (there are others available, be sure of that) on a team that plays wake. No true wake forest legend can ever play against Wake. He did great things, but he can't go down as one of our all time greats, he's an opponent. Kick his fucking ass.
 
MichDeac25 said:
Some of you are ridiculous. He was here 5 years. He graduated from Wake. It's not like he had one good season and transferred as soon as he got hot. He was great last year and came back. He gave Wake nearly everything he had.
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No one is mad at him. People are simply saying they won’t root for a team they despise and that we play next year. The school and WF team are more important than one former player, especially when that player is lining up across from us.
 
I'm not mad at Sam. He should take the money. I'm sad that we can't pay him to stay and he has to go somewhere else to get paid.

I don't think Sam is an NFL QB. I don't think a year at ND will make him an NFL QB, but he'll be richer by some amount after going there. I'll root for Sam to put up huge numbers and ND to lose every game 51-50.
 
Wild bill said:
IMO Sam had to do this if he wants to play in the NFL. If he tries to go now he'll be seen as a system QB. A year in another system, especially with a high-profile program with lots of national exposure, can only enhance his chances.
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Not necessarily, as look what happened to Jamie Newman. Theoretically Sam could be exposed as a player unable to handle the pressure consistently, just as we've seen small indications of. However I think it's far more likely he performs very well and does raise his stock, although to succeed in the NFL he'd have to be in the ideal situation.

If your QB came in and set your conference's all time record for TD's thrown, there's not much more you can ask of him. All while being an obvious leader and a sportsmanlike player seemingly respected by all his opponents. His tenure just happened to coincide with Covid and the start of NIL, so it was a strange confluence of events he's had to navigate. I support his move if it's what he thinks is best and just hope we have the next stud in Griffis waiting in the wings.
 
I know it was in the ESPN article, but I don't buy the NFL questioned Sam because of WF's "system". That is BS.

You know who was a system QB in college?

Pat Mahomes.

Texas Tech ran the Air Raid and threw for thousands yards. For years, Air Raid QBs were considered "system" QBs who all could put up huge numbers because of the "system". While there is truth that different college systems put up big numbers than others (because they are innovative), if you have the skills, the NFL will draft you regardless of the "system" you play in. Mahomes had elite NFL talent, other Air Raid QBs didn't. It wasn't a system issue. It was a talent issue.

People knocked Justin Fields because tOSU's "system" didn't produce NFL ready QBs... until now as it appears Fields can play because he has more "talent" than the other QBs in that system.

What "system" did Josh Allen play at Wyoming? It was a run-based "system" as Josh Allen threw a total of 17 TDs his senior year against crap competition. In his one game against Power V school (Iowa), Allen went 23 for 40 with no TDs and 2 picks. Some people pointed at that game as evidence that Allen couldn't play against higher level competition. Despite playing at a low level, not producing big numbers in a "run-based" system, Allen was a first round pick. Why? Because he was 6-5 230, can throw the ball 70 yards and can run. Talent. Not system dictates.

The "system" is not the issue for Hartman. Such a lazy narrative. If Pat Mahomes or Josh Allen played at WF, they would be first round picks, regardless of the "system". Hartman's NFL stock is in doubt, not because of the "system", but because he is 6-1 (if that), has limited arm talent and is not an elusive runner. Whatever "system" Hartman plays in isn't going to change that.

Also, hilarious to me that anyone thinks that ND's "system" is better suited for grooming NFL QBs. Did anyone watch ND football this past year? They have a plodding run-based attack and wide-outs with limited ability. Will never believe that "system" is any better at prepping a QB for the NFL than WF's. It's not. WF QBs have to make split second reads and have to make all of the throws:

  • Outs
  • Crossing routes
  • Deep routes
Hartman was a great QB for WF. His talents and weaknesses were on full display for each game. The "system" did not deprive NFL scouts from fully evaluating Sam.
 
DeacDaddy said:
Not necessarily, as look what happened to Jamie Newman. Theoretically Sam could be exposed as a player unable to handle the pressure consistently, just as we've seen small indications of. However I think it's far more likely he performs very well and does raise his stock, although to succeed in the NFL he'd have to be in the ideal situation.

If your QB came in and set your conference's all time record for TD's thrown, there's not much more you can ask of him. All while being an obvious leader and a sportsmanlike player seemingly respected by all his opponents. His tenure just happened to coincide with Covid and the start of NIL, so it was a strange confluence of events he's had to navigate. I support his move if it's what he thinks is best and just hope we have the next stud in Griffis waiting in the wings.
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Unfortunately the narrative has become, WF QB's should leave to prove they are not a "system" QB

From Thamel's article on ESPN:

There's a belief among the scouts that playing in a pro-style system would benefit Hartman's NFL projection after playing in Wake Forest's successful but unconventional slow mesh system.
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From Bleacher Report when Newman transferred:

Newman told Feldman his decision would come down to who could best help develop him to play in the NFL. Georgia has convinced him it can get that job done.
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I agree with Pilchard that this is a lazy narrative - but it has definitely taken hold
 
MichDeac25 said:
Some of you are ridiculous. He was here 5 years. He graduated from Wake. It's not like he had one good season and transferred as soon as he got hot. He was great last year and came back. He gave Wake nearly everything he had.
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I think you are referring to Jamie Newman. I have been thinking about how this differs from the Newman situation and is both similar. Sam has played here for 5 years and has given us a great run, for which I am appreciative. Newman's transfer really did not work out for him, and part of me wonders if that will be Sam's fate as well. Part of me does not begrudge Sam the opportunity to get that bag, but the other side of me wonders, will a year at ND improve his stock for an NFL career? Tyler Buchner is no slouch, he has spent more time in the offense and is only a sophomore, which could give ND incentive to play him more. Some of Sam's worst games have been against big-time opponents, so the thought of him having a quicksand game against Ohio State or USC next year makes me shudder.

But maybe that is it, Sam sees this as an opportunity to put all those questions aside, beat out a blue chip prospect, play well against top 10 teams and improve his draft stock, and if not, well, it's 1 season compared to 5 others, and he will probably still get a shot in the NFL, plus some extra money to boot.

If he was transferring to Oklahoma or Florida or Michigan, would we be more understanding, or is it because it is ND (who we play next season) that we are so upset?

Maybe we would all be happier if he just went to the NFL draft and was a Deac always and forever as he said, but that may not be the best thing for Sam. There is a lot we will not know until the end of next season.

Personally, I will root for Sam on Sundays but not on Saturdays. If he has a 4 int game against Wake next year and ND loses, I will not shed a tear while celebrating that win.
 
What gives me a chuckle is this whole notion that Sam is "moving up" to a "better program". Going "big time!!" Really? Sure, I get the mystique and nostalgia and history of Notre Dame and the NBC contract blah blah. I get all that.

But, in 2021 Wake Forest was 11-3; Notre Dame was 11-2. In 2022, Wake Forest finished 8-5 and Notre Dame is 8-4 with a game remaining and a coach who may not make it through next season.

But let's not let facts get in the way of sensationalism. As for this notion he's going to be showcased at Notre Dame, I also call bullshit.

One of the best quarterbacks in the NFL is Josh Allen who played at WYOMING!!!! Yes. Freaking Wyoming!! I haven't seen Wyoming play on television in about 25 years!!

Do I begrudge him for taking the life-changing $$$? Of course not. But I think some of these explanations for why he needs to move to Notre Dame, outside of money, are very contrived. Just my 2 cents.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Running the slow mesh isn't going to tell NFL guys much about his ability to run NFL style sets
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The "slow mesh" was only ~20% of the offense this year and you could count on one hand (without using all 5 fingers) the number of "slow mesh" plays run in the bowl game.

I expect our fanbase to be more knowledgeable than the work-shy and shiftless local and national "experts" but it appears this isn't the case.
 
TheAbster said:
What gives me a chuckle is this whole notion that Sam is "moving up" to a "better program". Going "big time!!" Really? Sure, I get the mystique and nostalgia and history of Notre Dame and the NBC contract blah blah. I get all that.

But, in 2021 Wake Forest was 11-3; Notre Dame was 11-2. In 2022, Wake Forest finished 8-5 and Notre Dame is 8-4 with a game remaining and a coach who may not make it through next season.

But let's not let facts get in the way of sensationalism. As for this notion he's going to be showcased at Notre Dame, I also call bullshit.

One of the best quarterbacks in the NFL is Josh Allen who played at WYOMING!!!! Yes. Freaking Wyoming!! I haven't seen Wyoming play on television in about 25 years!!

Do I begrudge him for taking the life-changing $$$? Of course not. But I think some of these explanations for why he needs to move to Notre Dame, outside of money, are very contrived. Just my 2 cents.
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How did Notre Dame do against common opponents with us this year again?
 
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Notre Dame beat Clemson, UNC, BC, and Syracuse

All fairly convincing wins too
 
deacfan123 said:
No true wake forest legend can ever play against Wake. He did great things, but he can't go down as one of our all time greats,
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That is a stupid post. Sam is the best Wake Forest QB of all time. He has the ACC record for touchdown passes - he’s a legend, you can’t take that away from him because he transferred somewhere for his 6th(!) year of eligibility. Jesus, did you think he was enrolled in medical school? Grow up.
 
buckets said:
Notre Dame beat Clemson, UNC, BC, and Syracuse

All fairly convincing wins too
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... and we had the Clemson game won and zero business losing to UNC. None. Again, taking the $$$ is fine but pretending there are other motivators seems a little forced to me.
 
buckets said:
Notre Dame beat Clemson, UNC, BC, and Syracuse

All fairly convincing wins too
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FWIW, the offensive point totals against the common opponents was essentially identical:

WF scored 167
ND scored 166

ND surrendered 70 points in those game
WF surrendered 137 against those same opponents.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
That is a stupid post. Sam is the best Wake Forest QB of all time. He has the ACC record for touchdown passes - he’s a legend, you can’t take that away from him because he transferred somewhere for his 6th(!) year of eligibility. Jesus, did you think he was enrolled in medical school? Grow up.
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Crazy talk, he is transferring and playing against us, he is literally choosing to go elsewhere. He doesn't have the allegiance to WF that you have to him, so from that point of view you need to grow up and realize what's going on here. He wants to whip wakes ass next year, he aint your qb anymore.
 
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