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So the UN Security Council has an emergency meeting.......

yeah, so we already did that. what should we do NOW, though?

I'm interested in these thoughts also.

We can't just bomb them (drone or tomahawk) because that disperses whatever they allegedly have.
We can't invade them to secure the situation without starting WWIII.
We can't get the UN to do anything because Russia and China will veto it.
We can't impose financial sanctions because they have nothing already. Hell, they are going to be net importers of oil in the next decade.

What should we do exactly? Stop bringing problems without solutions.
 
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I'm interested in these thoughts also.

We can't just bomb them (drone or tomahawk) because that disperses whatever they allegedly have.
We can't invade them to secure the situation without starting WWIII.
We can't get the UN to do anything because Russia and China will veto it.
We can't impose financial sanctions because they have nothing already. Hell, they are going to be net importers of oil in the next decade.

What should we do exactly? Stop bringing problems without solutions.

I don't accept that as immutable fact. We're not talking about grey areas. We're talking about intentionally gassing civilians. That's indefensible, and Russia and China know it. We're not asking China and Russia to agree on their favorite BBQ restaurant for lunch (Allen and Sons, BTW); we're talking about winning an argument about gassing children. If we can't win that argument, we're in worse shape than I thought.
 
yeah, so we already did that. what should we do NOW, though?

What would I do? Good question. The problem is the predicament we are in because Obama has been inconsistent with his message there (and in Egypt). Sometimes there is not a whole lot you can do at that point except wait for new leadership with a new message. It is similar to coaching. What should [Redacted] do now? There isn't anything he can do, the damage has been done. Obviously Obama is not [Redacted] in his presidency. So don't take that comparison out of context. It is similar in parenting. What do you do with a kid after he has run over you for the first 4 years of his life? At that point he knows who you are. You are a pushover. I guess you have to start standing firm, but in a presidency you don't have long enough to overcome inconsistencies.

Obama should have taken a stance and stuck with it. It is better to be wrong and consistent than inconsistent in my opinion. If we are wrong, the next guy can easily come in and change course, and still retain our standing. If our president waffles it weakens the stance for the next guy. I really thought Obama was going to be a great foreign leader. I liked his initial stance of taking a step back. But then he has been all over the place, and so now the world doesn't know what to think. Are we hands off or droning? Who knows.

So I don't know what to do now. How do you repair Humpty Dumpty? Our reputation is pretty much laughable now. If another country is gassing their citizens, I think the best move would be to develop an international coalition to stop the use of chemical warfare against your own citizens. There is no magic bullet. You have to put pressure, and be consistent, and hopefully avoid using troops (or drones).
 
Who tagged

'Mark it zero dude'.

Out yourself for posrep
 
I don't accept that as immutable fact. We're not talking about grey areas. We're talking about intentionally gassing civilians. That's indefensible, and Russia and China know it. We're not asking China and Russia to agree on their favorite BBQ restaurant for lunch (Allen and Sons, BTW); we're talking about winning an argument about gassing children. If we can't win that argument, we're in worse shape than I thought.

Gotta love jh and his straw men. Who on this thread is pro-gassing children?

Three straight posters asked for potential solutions and you come back with "if we can't agree gassing kids is wrong..."
 
I don't accept that as immutable fact. We're not talking about grey areas. We're talking about intentionally gassing civilians. That's indefensible, and Russia and China know it. We're not asking China and Russia to agree on their favorite BBQ restaurant for lunch (Allen and Sons, BTW); we're talking about winning an argument about gassing children. If we can't win that argument, we're in worse shape than I thought.

No one is debating the merits of gassing children.
 
Well at least we now know that Samantha's personal business was attending the Charlie Chaplin film festival in Ireland. First they said she couldn't travel to New York because there was no transportation. So under Obama we can no longer fly to the moon or even to upper atmosphere for that matter. We couldn't fly to Benghazi on September 11. Now we can't even fly to Dublin. Pretty soon Obama will have to take the bus to Martha's Vineyard.
 
What would I do? Good question. The problem is the predicament we are in because Obama has been inconsistent with his message there (and in Egypt). Sometimes there is not a whole lot you can do at that point except wait for new leadership with a new message. It is similar to coaching. What should [Redacted] do now? There isn't anything he can do, the damage has been done. Obviously Obama is not [Redacted] in his presidency. So don't take that comparison out of context. It is similar in parenting. What do you do with a kid after he has run over you for the first 4 years of his life? At that point he knows who you are. You are a pushover. I guess you have to start standing firm, but in a presidency you don't have long enough to overcome inconsistencies.

Obama should have taken a stance and stuck with it. It is better to be wrong and consistent than inconsistent in my opinion. If we are wrong, the next guy can easily come in and change course, and still retain our standing. If our president waffles it weakens the stance for the next guy. I really thought Obama was going to be a great foreign leader. I liked his initial stance of taking a step back. But then he has been all over the place, and so now the world doesn't know what to think. Are we hands off or droning? Who knows.

So I don't know what to do now. How do you repair Humpty Dumpty? Our reputation is pretty much laughable now. If another country is gassing their citizens, I think the best move would be to develop an international coalition to stop the use of chemical warfare against your own citizens. There is no magic bullet. You have to put pressure, and be consistent, and hopefully avoid using troops (or drones).

Bingo. It doesn't matter anymore. Obama's inaction on anything mixed with false red lines and promises has made us a laughing stock. The Middle East is going up in flames because no one believes he will do anything about it.
 
so, just so i get this, Obama puts down a "red line" and Syria ignores it, right? That just means the red line had no effect anyway, regardless of our actual response. We'd punished Libya seriously for violating ultimatums but Syria didn't care. They figured we'd (and the UN) would do what we would because they felt they had to keep the regime alive and knew the Russians would block any major western intervention.

To keep bitching about Obama is fucking dumb. You can't believe we'd march off to war and be honest with yourself.
 
Well at least we now know that Samantha's personal business was attending the Charlie Chaplin film festival in Ireland. First they said she couldn't travel to New York because there was no transportation. So under Obama we can no longer fly to the moon or even to upper atmosphere for that matter. We couldn't fly to Benghazi on September 11. Now we can't even fly to Dublin. Pretty soon Obama will have to take the bus to Martha's Vineyard.

What the fuck is wrong with you
 
What the fuck is wrong with you

With me? Really? What has happened to this country when people thing it is no big deal when the top official of the supposed only remaining super power skips an emergency UN Security Council meeting for something as stupid as this. They then pass it off saying she hasn't been able to travel since WEDNESDAY FROM IRELAND. America is finished.
 
This thread is disgusting on a number of levels and is the latest in a series of threads that show the Politics Board has outlived its usefulness.

Somebody should be raining holy hell on anyone cowardly enough to use poison gas on children.

Gotta love jh and his straw men. Who on this thread is pro-gassing children?

Three straight posters asked for potential solutions and you come back with "if we can't agree gassing kids is wrong..."

In his defense, he pretty clearly laid out his solution in his first post. And it looks like there is an outside chance he gets his wish.

You do sort of have to appreciate how he has framed his strawman. If you don't immediately condemn Syria to a fiery demise, then you are OK with gassing children. And the US becomes weak to boot. Bravo jh, Bravo.
 
With me? Really? What has happened to this country when people thing it is no big deal when the top official of the supposed only remaining super power skips an emergency UN Security Council meeting for something as stupid as this. They then pass it off saying she hasn't been able to travel since WEDNESDAY FROM IRELAND. America is finished.

Meh. As I said in the other thread, there are legit reasons to "miss" that meeting if your intention is to threaten a strike, bluff or not. You simply eliminate the chance other members bring it up and put you on the spot in a formal setting. I think you are reading too much into this simply because the excuse given is lame.
 
With me? Really? What has happened to this country when people thing it is no big deal when the top official of the supposed only remaining super power skips an emergency UN Security Council meeting for something as stupid as this. They then pass it off saying she hasn't been able to travel since WEDNESDAY FROM IRELAND. America is finished.

Still not hearing a solution...
 
Meh. As I said in the other thread, there are legit reasons to "miss" that meeting if your intention is to threaten a strike, bluff or not. You simply eliminate the chance other members bring it up and put you on the spot in a formal setting. I think you are reading too much into this simply because the excuse given is lame.

That and you know who is still President.
 
All in favor of dropping jhmd and 89DeaconMike in Syria to deal with this, say "Aye".
 
Russia will veto everything until someone can present a plan that shows there will be a strong and stable non-Islamist government in place when it's done. They greatly prefer the devil they know to one they don't - and they are deeply worried about Islamism near their borders / sphere of influence considering what already has happened inside their own borders.

Putin sadly doesn't give a fuck about anyone gassing kids, and we have to recognize that.
 
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