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State Of The Program

Ah yes, I forgot to add bad officiating to the list of circumstances that only we deal with to keep us out of the dance every single season, year after year. We're a Final Four team without that. JFC.
 
Wake was an eligible all season Reid and healthy, happy Mondanto for the last half of the season away from an NCAA berth.
 
We had both Reid and Monsanto for more than enough games that mattered, and we still lost the ones we had to win and should have been easy wins. Stop the excuses. We stink. We are an awful, awful basketball program and have been for the better part of two decades. It isn't going to change unless we clean house.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
We had both Reid and Monsanto for more than enough games that mattered, and we still lost the ones we had to win and should have been easy wins. Stop the excuses. We stink. We are an awful, awful basketball program and have been for the better part of two decades. It isn't going to change unless we clean house.
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yeah
wake lost 10 games with reid in the lineup
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
We had both Reid and Monsanto for more than enough games that mattered, and we still lost the ones we had to win and should have been easy wins. Stop the excuses. We stink. We are an awful, awful basketball program and have been for the better part of two decades. It isn't going to change unless we clean house.
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I wanna know exactly who you want us to hire. We need to follow their career, because you certainly seem to think you know a whole hell of a lot more than everyone else in the world. Don't comeback with some smart ass remark, I want one name, thats it.
 
diverdeac said:
On Forbes: the BC game in 22 was a major coaching fail. It turns out it did not cost us a bid but that team was very good, had pieces that set up for a long tourney run and I feel our focus was lost doing a victory lap in NYC before playing.

Other than that I view Forbes failure to develop a bench the problem.

Hunter and Reid play younger than they are…another year I could see both being high first round picks. They are wildly talented, intelligent and nice kids that I feel lacked experience under fire. they also don’t have the internal nastiness of a DJ Horne or Hinson to elevate their play at crunch time So with experience I feel they could handle things much better next year without a personality transplant.

I think that this team is a Final four team next year if we can keep it together, and add two pieces.

We had a rough year. Reid, Damari, Ituka (who was a starter pre 22) then losing Marsh right when we needed him most. Coach Forbes personal situation. Then the officiating debacles at State, the non walk call and the first half of the Pitt game. Geez. I feel this team was victimized by officiating yes more so than other teams because we are more of a finesse team,

So I’m NOT giving up on this program, and see far more positives than negatives,
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This is a great summary and more or less where I currently find myself. I really hope Hunter stays one more year, because I think that will be the difference in us being on the bubble for the NCAAT or debating what seeding we'll get on Selection Sunday.
 
This is not self serving .... from seeing Hunter this year, his back story, and the way he recoiled when the spotlight was brightest. I dont know if his jumping off to the NBA as a possible not for sure high pick makes sense for him. He seems like an intelligent and sensitive kid. Kid. Learning how to process the ups and downs another year at Wake in a more supportive environment and GETTING PAID. That seems like the better choice for him.
 
diverdeac said:
This is not self serving .... from seeing Hunter this year, his back story, and the way he recoiled when the spotlight was brightest. I dont know if his jumping off to the NBA as a possible not for sure high pick makes sense for him. He seems like an intelligent and sensitive kid. Kid. Learning how to process the ups and downs another year at Wake in a more supportive environment and GETTING PAID. That seems like the better choice for him.
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Rookie wage scale for the 30th pick in 2023 was $2M. That also starts your clock on your second contract. That comes with a 2 year guarantee... so he is locked in to $4M. if Projected as a 1st rounder...i think he goes, no matter what Wake can come up with
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
We had both Reid and Monsanto for more than enough games that mattered, and we still lost the ones we had to win and should have been easy wins. Stop the excuses. We stink. We are an awful, awful basketball program and have been for the better part of two decades. It isn't going to change unless we clean house.
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We are not currently 'an awful, awful basketball program'- we were, but we're not now. We're currently a 'decent' program- an NIT level program. At this point we need to make that next step up to becoming a regular NCAAT program. We're pretty close, although I don't think the whole 'convert random transfer portal player who averaged 5.2 PPG into 1st-team All-ACC player' is a sustainable strategy. It's actually been quite remarkable though how well Forbes has identified and developed those type players (eg LaRavia, Alondes, Tyree, Sallis).
 
WindyCityDeac said:
Rookie wage scale for the 30th pick in 2023 was $2M. That also starts your clock on your second contract. Unless we have NIL money of $2M or more to give, I'm not sure I'd pass up being a 1st rounder and incurring more risk.
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So I would say that there is no first round certainty and $300k and one more year could be more valuable to him over a ten year period. Every situation is different. The rule would be to go but there are exceptions. I would suspect that he has a pretty good support network with his mom and all..
 
I'll be flabbergasted if Sallis is actually a first round pick. That's not to say he can't make a roster and be a good player. But a 6'4 combo guard without a ton of explosion off the dribble or elite lateral movement and good but not great range does not scream first rounder. At 6'4 he would need to be an elite shooter or an elite defender, and I think he is a notch below for both (maybe more on defense).

I still expect him to turn pro, because he probably has better long-term prospects a year younger than a year older, but I would expect him to be a second round guy.
 
DeaconSig said:
I'll be flabbergasted if Sallis is actually a first round pick. That's not to say he can't make a roster and be a good player. But a 6'4 combo guard without a ton of explosion off the dribble or elite lateral movement and good but not great range does not scream first rounder. At 6'4 he would need to be an elite shooter or an elite defender, and I think he is a notch below for both (maybe more on defense).

I still expect him to turn pro, because he probably has better long-term prospects a year younger than a year older, but I would expect him to be a second round guy.
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Round 2 salary
 
DeaconSig said:
I'll be flabbergasted if Sallis is actually a first round pick. That's not to say he can't make a roster and be a good player. But a 6'4 combo guard without a ton of explosion off the dribble or elite lateral movement and good but not great range does not scream first rounder. At 6'4 he would need to be an elite shooter or an elite defender, and I think he is a notch below for both (maybe more on defense).

I still expect him to turn pro, because he probably has better long-term prospects a year younger than a year older, but I would expect him to be a second round guy.
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Yeah, he’s a second rounder, at best, I would think. But that’s not damning with faint praise, because he should still leave if he’s a legitimate draft prospect. Our problem is that we have guys 1) leave who aren’t legitimate prospects or 2) are good enough to get drafted but don’t have the commensurate college success that typically comes with being drafted. We’ve found this amazing sweet spot of doing fuck-all with our NBA talent while simultaneously losing non-NBA players who would be spectacular in college as seniors.
 
NBA contracts are guaranteed roughly halfway through round 2 these days
 
2&2 is a donk with some really terrible takes, but he's not wrong about this one. Take any single season, and we can all find reasons why it would have turned out differently, but we're beyond that now. We have decades worth of underachieving as compared to our talent level, as measured by both the NBA and Vegas, which has happened across numerous coaching tenures. At least historically, those aren't intrinsic weaknesses or just incredibly bad luck, and to think otherwise is LOWF at its finest. It's coaching.

Now, I'm not saying that Forbes' ceiling is already determined and unalterable. People said that Roy Williams couldn't win it all right up until he did, repeatedly, so there's a chance that Forbes can break through. But we haven't underachieved as compared to our expectations and talent level for three decades because an unbelievably low-probability series of events have befallen our program in a unique way. It's coaching.

IMO, Forbes deserves more time. He had a shitty year on a personal level, his first season shouldn't even really count, and it's hard to overstate how shitty our program was after Wellman was done with it. But these if-->then statements need to stop, because everyone can play that game. Eventually, you just have to win, which--fundamentally--is about coaching.
 
DeacinBama said:
2&2 is a donk with some really terrible takes, but he's not wrong about this one. Take any single season, and we can all find reasons why it would have turned out differently, but we're beyond that now. We have decades worth of underachieving as compared to our talent level, as measured by both the NBA and Vegas, which has happened across numerous coaching tenures. At least historically, those aren't intrinsic weaknesses or just incredibly bad luck, and to think otherwise is LOWF at its finest. It's coaching.

Now, I'm not saying that Forbes' ceiling is already determined and unalterable. People said that Roy Williams couldn't win it all right up until he did, repeatedly, so there's a chance that Forbes can break through. But we haven't underachieved as compared to our expectations and talent level for three decades because an unbelievably low-probability series of events have befallen our program in a unique way. It's coaching.

IMO, Forbes deserves more time. He had a shitty year on a personal level, his first season shouldn't even really count, and it's hard to overstate how shitty our program was after Wellman was done with it. But these if-->then statements need to stop, because everyone can play that game. Eventually, you just have to win, which--fundamentally--is about coaching.
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Well yes, but don't also dismiss the inalienable truth that god does in fact hate Wake Forest.
 
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