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Steve Forbes credibility watch

2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
The Giants have as many Super Bowl wins as we have NCAA tournament (64) appearances in the last 16 years. So yes, if Wake had two Nattys over that same period I might be a little more forgiving about some misfires. Instead, we have absolute shit.
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$100 says Forbes reaches the NCAA tournament before Daniel Jones wins a Super Bowl
 
wakelaw13 said:
What the NC State fanbase demands is entirely irrelevant to what Wake Forest should do.

NC State's fanbase disproportionately judges success based on what they do against UNC. They desperately want to get out of UNC's shadow and it's never going to happen. They will always be number two and they will always have a complex about it.

Wake Forest is the smallest power 5 school and punches above it's weight. We don't need to be Duke and - aside from one poster here - we don't spend all of our time trying to emulate them. Wake Forest is different from everyone else in ways that are mostly very positive. I absolutely believe that Forbes can win, and win big, here.
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Not in basketball in any relevant history. How many hundreds of schools have made the NCAA tournament since we last even made an appearance? And no, whatever that play-in year was doesn't count; but even with that, it is still well over a hundred.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I'll bet you $100 that Daniel Jones wins a Super Bowl as the starting QB before Steve Forbes wins a national championship as the head coach.
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well that's a different bet.

Let me know if you want to take me up on my offer.

By the way, since you DEMAND EXCELLENCE, especially for an organization that has had much failure, how do you feel about Andy Reid and the Chiefs? The hadn't won a Super Bowl in over 40 years when he took over! And he didn't win a playoff game until his seventh year there! They should have shit-canned his ass!
 
I'm sure this will boggle some minds, but multiple things can be true at the same time.

1. Forbes has done well in some regards, and not well in others. I'm not an elite level recreational sports coach (I was average at best), but it seems to me that opposing coaches make simple adjustments at halftime- especially in away games- that utterly bamboozle our players and, more alarmingly, our coaches. I feel like a decent junior high coach could make adjustments that would mystify our bench. Is that true? Probably not. Is the fact that there is a rational basis to feel that way indicative of a problem with our in-game coaching? I think so. Forbes gets a longer runway thanks to Wellman's utter destruction of the WFU basketball program, but it's not infinite.

2. It's not time to fire him, but if (and this is an open question I think) we REALLY want to be an elite or near-elite program (as opposed to a pretty good one, which seems like it would satisfy a significant number of fans here, presumably some of our most devoted fans), we simply cannot have a nearly-perpetual belief that next year will/must be better.

3. The Buzz/Manning era really fucked with a lot of people's perspective on what WFU basketball should/could be.

4. Anyone who wants to fire Forbes today is reacting in an emotional manner without consideration for what comes next. I find this annoying, but understandable on an internet message board.

5. Anyone who posts after a string of awful road losses, that winning that game was not in the plan and it will be OK as long as we win the next x games is not really doing the program any favors. I don't understand this behavior. Making the tournament for one game should not be the goal, and anyone who really believes the Deacs would roll in a tournament away from the Joel hasn't watched many games.

I don't really care whether we barely make the tournament or not, other than as a legitimate milestone for becoming an elite or near-elite program. Losing in a play-in game or even the first weekend of the real tournament is not enough to truly bring me back. It's a complex process, made harder by a vast difference in expectations.
 
Kent said:
I'm sure this will boggle some minds, but multiple things can be true at the same time.

1. Forbes has done well in some regards, and not well in others. I'm not an elite level recreational sports coach (I was average at best), but it seems to me that opposing coaches make simple adjustments at halftime- especially in away games- that utterly bamboozle our players and, more alarmingly, our coaches. I feel like a decent junior high coach could make adjustments that would mystify our bench. Is that true? Probably not. Is the fact that there is a rational basis to feel that way indicative of a problem with our in-game coaching? I think so. Forbes gets a longer runway thanks to Wellman's utter destruction of the WFU basketball program, but it's not infinite.

2. It's not time to fire him, but if (and this is an open question I think) we REALLY want to be an elite or near-elite program (as opposed to a pretty good one, which seems like it would satisfy a significant number of fans here, presumably some of our most devoted fans), we simply cannot have a nearly-perpetual belief that next year will/must be better.

3. The Buzz/Manning era really fucked with a lot of people's perspective on what WFU basketball should/could be.

4. Anyone who wants to fire Forbes today is reacting in an emotional manner without consideration for what comes next. I find this annoying, but understandable on an internet message board.

5. Anyone who posts after a string of awful road losses, that winning that game was not in the plan and it will be OK as long as we win the next x games is not really doing the program any favors. I don't understand this behavior. Making the tournament for one game should not be the goal, and anyone who really believes the Deacs would roll in a tournament away from the Joel hasn't watched many games.

I don't really care whether we barely make the tournament or not, other than as a legitimate milestone for becoming an elite or near-elite program. Losing in a play-in game or even the first weekend of the real tournament is not enough to truly bring me back. It's a complex process, made harder by a vast difference in expectations.
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Excellent post. I totally agree. And this supports my suggestion a few pages back on this thread that it might be time to critically look at those coaches surrounding Forbes and those responsible for the X and O's. We seem to get punched in the mouth at halftime with ACC-level adjustments and then come out like a deer in headlights. Why this appears to only happen on the road? I don't have enough initials behind my name to know that answer.

My hope is Forbes is doing this self-evaluation without the encouragement from his boss. But, my hunch is no and that concerns me as well.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I'll bet you $100 that Daniel Jones wins a Super Bowl as the starting QB before Steve Forbes wins a national championship as the head coach.
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This is comical. Beating 31 other teams with the same salary cap over a 3-4 game postseason is a little easier than beating 350 other teams over a 6 game postseason. Pretty safe no-contest though.
 
tigerswood said:
This is comical. Beating 31 other teams with the same salary cap over a 3-4 game postseason is a little easier than beating 350 other teams over a 6 game postseason. Pretty safe no-contest though.
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The fact that I view this bet as pretty much a no contest wash is a testiment to the unwipped ass era of Daniel Jones football.
 
thatguy2016 said:
well that's a different bet.

Let me know if you want to take me up on my offer.

By the way, since you DEMAND EXCELLENCE, especially for an organization that has had much failure, how do you feel about Andy Reid and the Chiefs? The hadn't won a Super Bowl in over 40 years when he took over! And he didn't win a playoff game until his seventh year there! They should have shit-canned his ass!
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They won a playoff game his third year there.
 
SC DEAC said:
we would be the laughingstock of college basketball if we fired Forbes right now. anyone suggesting he should be fired is either stupid or just trying to be provocative on the internet.
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True that but I would not be doing a Manning-like extension yet either.
 
TheAbster said:
Excellent post. I totally agree. And this supports my suggestion a few pages back on this thread that it might be time to critically look at those coaches surrounding Forbes and those responsible for the X and O's. We seem to get punched in the mouth at halftime with ACC-level adjustments and then come out like a deer in headlights. Why this appears to only happen on the road? I don't have enough initials behind my name to know that answer.

My hope is Forbes is doing this self-evaluation without the encouragement from his boss. But, my hunch is no and that concerns me as well.
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This is not the case with championship coaches.
 
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