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Tar Holes NOA from the NCAA

jhmd2000 said:
Are you proposing something like a scholarship?
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More like a grant. They need a chance to get the real education they were denied during their playing days.
 
PhDeac said:
More like a grant. They need a chance to get the real education they were denied during their playing days.
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If you were offered a complete catalogue, were recommended to take paper classes in identity studies, and then requested more rigorous classes and were placed in AFAM anywhere, then I think it is fair to say that you were "denied".

Is that what happened?

P.S. At the risk of interrupting a narrative, are you aware of the measures that are already in place?
 
I love it when I see there are new posts in this thread, because it means one of two things - Either: 1) new reports discussing the absurdly hilarious and nearly unbelievable tactics that adults at UNC used to try to maintain athlete eligibility (complete with characters with first names like Burgess, Dickie, and Bubba), or 2) jhmd2000 is floundering his way through another desperate defense of these tactics and characters. Either way, it's comedy gold.
 
Rafi said:
I love it when I see there are new posts in this thread, because it means one of two things - Either: 1) new reports discussing the absurdly hilarious and nearly unbelievable tactics that adults at UNC used to try to maintain athlete eligibility (complete with characters with first names like Burgess, Dickie, and Bubba), or 2) jhmd2000 is floundering his way through another desperate defense of these tactics and characters. Either way, it's comedy gold.
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There's a lot of hurt behind the hate, isn't there?
 
jhmd2000 said:
If you were offered a complete catalogue, were recommended to take paper classes in identity studies, and then requested more rigorous classes and were placed in AFAM anywhere, then I think it is fair to say that you were "denied".

Is that what happened?
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I realize I already know your response, but have you seriously not been paying attention? That's exactly what happened. Multiple reports, emails, and testimonies indicating that athletes were steered into courses by the adults and advisers in charge of helping them and never really given any choice of their own.
 
RacerDeac said:
I realize I already know your response, but have you seriously not been paying attention? That's exactly what happened. Multiple reports, emails, and testimonies indicating that athletes were steered into courses by the adults and advisers in charge of helping them and never really given any choice of their own.
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Do you think that Rashad McCants was "denied" more rigorous classes by the definition I provided?

Do you really think that?

eta: Since you are #seriouslypayingattention, how was McCants doing in those more rigorous classes (that according to you, he sought but was "denied")? The Myth of the Heartbroken Athlete in Easy Classes is born.
 
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DeacWatcher said:
Who exactly would put UNC on trial to get these answers under oath? It sure won't be the NCAA. Would it not take a private lawsuit from someone like McCants to get that info?
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I could easily see an org like the ACLU investing into a lawsuit if it's obvious that a women's sport is being thrown under the bus to protect men's bball/fball. And I don't think it would just be UNC on trial, but UNC and the NCAA.
 
jhmd2000 said:
Do you think that Rashad McCants was "denied" more rigorous classes by the definition I provided?

Do you really think that?
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If McCants had refused to step onto the court until he was signed up for more rigorous classes, would he have been signed up for them? Sure. But that's not exactly where the line of responsibility is drawn. I mean, if McCants had held a gun to his advisor's head, I'm sure he could have enrolled in any classes he wanted and you'd use it as proof that he wasn't held back from getting the education he was promised by contract in exchange for his time spent on the court.

But hey, if you're ok with paid professional adults, whose job is to advise young "student"-athletes on academics and courses, funnelling players into fake classes, with fake assignments, no professors, and arbitrarily assigned grades, knowing that the classes exist solely for the purpose of keeping them eligible so that the basketball team can keep winning...who are we kidding? We know you're ok with that. You say as much every time you post.
 
Do you really think the adults didn't know he wasn't getting a real education? Rashad McCants wasn't the only athlete at UNC. In his case he may have sought the easy/no-show classes. That doesn't get UNC of the hook. They still had a responsibility to encourage and support him. If he decided he wasn't going to show up for practices and work on his game, do you think UNC would have let that slide? The answer to that shows that UNC didn't care about his receiving an education, but rather they only cared about how he could help them win on the court.
As Racer pointed out, other athletes have said they were steered towards specific classes.

And you never answered my question of how UNC was able to maintain such a superior graduation rate over the years with the same players that everyone else was recruiting. How did they do it???
 
RacerDeac said:
If McCants had refused to step onto the court until he was signed up for more rigorous classes, would he have been signed up for them? Sure. But that's not exactly where the line of responsibility is drawn. I mean, if McCants had held a gun to his advisor's head, I'm sure he could have enrolled in any classes he wanted and you'd use it as proof that he wasn't held back from getting the education he was promised by contract in exchange for his time spent on the court.

But hey, if you're ok with paid professional adults, whose job is to advise young "student"-athletes on academics and courses, funnelling players into fake classes, with fake assignments, no professors, and arbitrarily assigned grades, knowing that the classes exist solely for the purpose of keeping them eligible so that the basketball team can keep winning...who are we kidding? We know you're ok with that. You say as much every time you post.
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Again, the hate and the hurt are showing. If you wish to cram words into posts that I neither said nor agreed with and sign my name to them for me in your mind, then it is clear I can't stop you from making things up out of thin air. Enjoy.

But claiming that Marvin Austin, Greg Little and Rashad McCants are heart-broken scholars who were "denied" more rigorous work because that kind of sounds more damning is 100% fiction (and having the audacity to claim that other people who don't agree with that worldview are "seriously not paying attention" is just silly).
 
Tobacco Road said:
Do you really think the adults didn't know he wasn't getting a real education? Rashad McCants wasn't the only athlete at UNC. In his case he may have sought the easy/no-show classes. That doesn't get UNC of the hook. They still had a responsibility to encourage and support him. If he decided he wasn't going to show up for practices and work on his game, do you think UNC would have let that slide? The answer to that shows that UNC didn't care about his receiving an education, but rather they only cared about how he could help them win on the court.
As Racer pointed out, other athletes have said they were steered towards specific classes.

And you never answered my question of how UNC was able to maintain such a superior graduation rate over the years with the same players that everyone else was recruiting. How did they do it???
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*sigh*

Did I ever say that? Please just tell the facts as they happened; not as they are recast to sound more damning. McCants didn't get an education, but let's drop the "denied!!!!!1111" bit. The facts are bad enough; let's stick with those, guys.

Answer: They cheated. Borderline students were placed in made-up identity studies classes in a Department where they knew that other people on campus would be afraid to criticize. Turns out, they were right. There's even a report about it.
 
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jhmd2000 said:
Do you think that Rashad McCants was "denied" more rigorous classes by the definition I provided?

Do you really think that?

eta: Since you are #seriouslypayingattention, how was McCants doing in those more rigorous classes (that according to you, he sought but was "denied")? The Myth of the Heartbroken Athlete in Easy Classes is born.
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Sister Rashanda McCants is the one who has filed for the class action lawsuit, claiming the school, UNC-Chapel Hill, has not done enough to ensure a quality education. Hers is the second lawsuit behind Michael McAdoo's lawsuit.

"Two former University of North Carolina athletes have filed a lawsuit against the school and the NCAA, saying neither is doing enough to ensure athletes receive a quality education.

The lawsuit names former women's basketball player Rashanda McCants and former football player Devon Ramsay as plaintiffs but seeks class-action status. It was filed Thursday afternoon in Durham County court, making it the second lawsuit to emerge in the wake of UNC's long-running academic fraud scandal that heavily involved athletes"
 
jhmd2000 said:
If you wish to cram words into posts that I neither said nor agreed with and sign my name to them for me in your mind, then it is clear I can't stop you from making things up out of thin air. Enjoy.
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Lol...you whine about me putting words in your mouth, despite your continuous posts denying that anything wrong was done, and then you go and, well, put words in my mouth.

jhmd2000 said:
But claiming that Marvin Austin, Greg Little and Rashad McCants are heart-broken scholars who were "denied" more rigorous workbecause that kind of sounds more damning is 100% fiction (and having the audacity to claim that other people who don't agree with that worldview are "seriously not paying attention" is just silly).
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Heart broken scholars, they very likely are not. Denied the education they were promised, they most definitely were. The people whose job it was to help them navigate the process of getting an education while also balancing athletics (you know, PAID advisers) literally steered them away from doing so.
 
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It's becoming more and more obvious that athletes aren't the only UNC grads who were denied an education during their time in baby blue land.
 
RacerDeac said:
It's becoming more and more obvious that athletes aren't the only UNC grads who were denied an education during their time in baby blue land.
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Again, the hate/fact ratio is unbalanced. McCants was FAILING at the education you are talking about. Would he have been "denied" it if he failed out?

Your theory believe he was "denied" something he never actually sought. Again I ask, do you really believe that, or does it just sound good to you?

The best part is we don't have to speculate whether or not he actually sought it. He equated his college experience to "incarceration." Doesn't sound to me like his heart was in it.
 
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I will concede the point, jhmd, McCants had no business being on a college campus. There should be some accountability on the student-athletes to make the most of the opportunity they have been given. Of course, offering some of these kids an opportunity to get an "education" is like offering the Indians trinkets for Manhattan. It's not a fair trade.

I don't know what the answer is. On the one hand, Presidents of the University, as well as the NCAA, talk about the lofty ideals represented by a University. On the other hand, they pay the coaches in the revenue sports a shit ton of money to succeed and when they don't, they are summarily dispatched. It makes it challenging to ask those same coaches to avoid bringing really good players onto a campus when there is no hope of them taking advantage of their "opportunity." The University system should not be a Farm System for the professional leagues. The kids that have no ability to compete in the classroom, (as well as the ones that view a college campus as a real life game of Grand Theft Auto), really should not be offered a scholarship. One of the things that has been played down in the UNC scandal is the role that Admissions played.

I have said this before, UNC (and schools like it) need to look in the mirror and ask themselves what they want to be. If it is a football/basketball factory, then so be it. If it is a "Public Ivy" then start fucking acting like it. If the UNC scandal has shown anything, you say the latter when you mean the former and call it the "Carolina Way."
 
RacerDeac said:
Lol...you whine about me putting words in your mouth, despite your continuous posts denying that anything wrong was done, and then you go and, well, put words in my mouth.



Heart broken scholars, they very likely are not. [True] Denied the education they were promised, they most definitely were. [False] [True ]The people whose job it was to help them navigate the process of getting an education while also balancing athletics (you know, PAID advisers) literally steered them away from doing so[True]
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Everybody acknowledges UNC failed these kids; that much is never in doubt. It is bizarre to me to believe that Rashad McCants is a victim. If you totally absolve him of any personal responsibility for his own choices (check) and ignore his personal commitment to his classwork (check) and ignore the fact that he left early to not complete this education (that he according to you, he sought), then sure.
 
it's not about absolving mccants, or anyone else, of personal responsibility. but his lack of interest in learning should not have been enabled by various professional educators. those adults let him down. they should have given him the help he needed to succeed or fail. instead they said "fuck it. we'll keep him eligible to the team and school benefits."

he was a kid that was always going to take the path of least resistance. the adults in his life should not have followed his lead or lead him astray. i suspect that was not part of the recruiting pitch to he and his family in their living room.
 
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