• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

The Hillary Myth

US SoS for the last few decades:

Dean Rusk - a lousy choice, the country would have been better off without his services as SoS
William Rodgers - weak, but that's why Nixon picked him
Henry Kissinger - very good, serious strategy and accomplishments under trying circumstances
Cyrus Vance - weak, typically Carteresque
Edmund Muskie - so, so, had little time and did little with it
Alexander Haig - always more ambitious than talented, not a good choice for SoS
George Schultz - very good, solid professional in a difficult period managing the decline and end of the Cold War
James Baker - very good, considerable accomplishments
Larry Eagleberger - prepped by helping make Bosnia the mess it became, incompetent keeps naturally coming to mind but fortunately for the country his tenure as SoS was mercifully short
Warren Christopher - an empty stuffed shirt, a non-entity
Madeleine Albright - actually pretty good, a fine career diplomat
Colin Powell - a very decent, intelligent and highly experienced man, who was a natural diplomat, worked loyally and concientiously with the very weak hand that he was given
Condoleezza Rice - not particulaly effective
Hillary Clinton - overly ambitious temporary help, obviously there to polish her resume for a presidential run and convenient for Obama to keep her close as SoS, so that she could do less harm elsewhere, look at her pictures and watch her in media videos, the woman is just plain weird, yiykes!
 
", look at her pictures and watch her in media videos, the woman is just plain weird, yiykes!"

Tells us all we need to know about preconceived POV.
 
"Condoleezza Rice - not particulaly effective"

Frontrunner for understatement of the year.
 
RJKarl said:
James Baker is responsible for the Gulf War ever happening. Had he instructed Amb. April Gallespie to tell Saddam if he went 1MM inside Kuwait the US would drive his ass out, there would not have been a Gulf War.

It's also very likely there wouldn't have been 9/11 as OBL repeatedly stated his prime motivation was having infidels in the Holy Land.

Also without the Gulf War, we wouldn't have gone into Iraq the second time.
Click to expand...

bin Laden's prime motivation for 9/11 was being a lunatic with a lot of money. The people who pretend like he's a rational actor are idiots. Abortion clinic bombers are RW nutjobs, bin Laden is just a freedom fighter!
 
The reality is he spoke often about the blasphemy of having armed infidels in the Holy Land of Saudi Arabia. Whether you like it or not, it's the truth.

Just like it's the truth that Baker and Bush 41 created the Gulf War. Saddam asked their permission to invade Kuwait and their response gave it to them. Had they told the truth, there wouldn't have been a Gulf War or the second Iraq War.

Baker is directly responsible for both.

Of course you think W is a Top 20 POTUS and Nixon wasn't anti-Semetic.
 
RJKarl said:
The reality is he spoke often about the blasphemy of having armed infidels in the Holy Land of Saudi Arabia. Whether you like it or not, it's the truth.

Just like it's the truth that Baker and Bush 41 created the Gulf War. Saddam asked their permission to invade Kuwait and their response gave it to them. Had they told the truth, there wouldn't have been a Gulf War or the second Iraq War.

Baker is directly responsible for both.

Of course you think W is a Top 20 POTUS and Nixon wasn't anti-Semetic.
Click to expand...

has TR actually said this?
 
RJKarl said:
The reality is he spoke often about the blasphemy of having armed infidels in the Holy Land of Saudi Arabia. Whether you like it or not, it's the truth.

Just like it's the truth that Baker and Bush 41 created the Gulf War. Saddam asked their permission to invade Kuwait and their response gave it to them. Had they told the truth, there wouldn't have been a Gulf War or the second Iraq War.

Baker is directly responsible for both.

Of course you think W is a Top 20 POTUS and Nixon wasn't anti-Semetic.
Click to expand...

Sure he did. How many followers is he going to get if he doesn't give justification? God, we really need you at the State Department. What with your Hussein mind-reading powers and your surefire way to negotiate with terrorists, how can we go wrong?
 
Not mind reading regarding Saddam, it is a matter of historical fact that he called US Amb. April Gallespie to ask what our response to his invasion would be. Remember, the US helped put Saddam in power. We supported him financially and militarily in the Iran-Iraq War.

We provided them with chemical weapons.

Saddam thought Bush 41 was his ally. Bush lied to him and double crossed him.
 
There's no question that meddling in the Middle East has gotten the U.S. and the Western world its share of troubles in the last 75 years.

That includes Israel
 
The Arab Spring caught everybody with their pants down. The people who benefited the most were the people who had the best political machine remaining to pick up the pieces. The Arab Spring was far from an invitation for US intervention. I'm not sure what the Secretary of State is supposed to do with other States are in flux.
 
PhDeac said:
The Arab Spring caught everybody with their pants down. The people who benefited the most were the people who had the best political machine remaining to pick up the pieces. The Arab Spring was far from an invitation for US intervention. I'm not sure what the Secretary of State is supposed to do with other States are in flux.
Click to expand...

So that's your best excuse? Nobody saw it coming, so why should we expect supposedly the most intelligent and foreign policy saavy people in the world to have seen it coming? (And by the way, there were people who saw it coming). You're right, it wasn't an invitation for U.S. intervention (except, apparently, in Libya). On the other hand, they didn't have to turn it into a complete clusterfuck, either.
 
TR1982 said:
So that's your best excuse? Nobody saw it coming, so why should we expect supposedly the most intelligent and foreign policy saavy people in the world to have seen it coming? (And by the way, there were people who saw it coming). You're right, it wasn't an invitation for U.S. intervention (except, apparently, in Libya). On the other hand, they didn't have to turn it into a complete clusterfuck, either.
Click to expand...

Links?
 
I am just curious why HC doesn't get the "irrational actor" pass for dealing with ME religious nuts that Pub SoS's received.
 
I didn't give the 'pub SoSes any passes for the ME, for religious nuts, or any other nuts. Dealing with nuts, religious or secular, is part of the job for a SoS, both here and abroad.
 
ChrisL68 said:
I am just curious why HC doesn't get the "irrational actor" pass for dealing with ME religious nuts that Pub SoS's received.
Click to expand...

bin Laden and Mubarak are a little different, wouldn't ya say?
 
It was during her time that we found and killed OBL, why does she get negativity for not "dealing" with him? How much more seriously can deal with someone than dead?
 
RJKarl said:
It was during her time that we found and killed OBL, why does she get negativity for not "dealing" with him? How much more seriously can deal with someone than dead?
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware that we had members of the Foreign Service over there casing OBL's compound. bin Laden was killed while I was alive. Some of my taxes paid for him to be killed. Do I get credit for it too?
 
TR1982 said:
bin Laden and Mubarak are a little different, wouldn't ya say?
Click to expand...

Do I think one is easier to deal with from an American perspective than the other? Not necessarily.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Do I think one is easier to deal with from an American perspective than the other? Not necessarily.
Click to expand...


Regardless, I'm not blaming Clinton for the fact that a lot of people in the Middle East do irrational things. Just like I don't blame James Baker and George H.W. Bush for the fact that bin Laden did irrational things. These are things you have to compensate for. Bush and Baker realized that a lot of people in the Middle East were going to hate us regardless of what we did, so they sided with the secular Arab nationalists, even though they oppressed their people. Clinton and Obama don't seem to realize that a lot of people in the Middle East are going to hate us regardless of what we do, so they waffled between who to side with, and everyone ended up hating us.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top