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The Killing - new show on AMC

I'm not really sure. I think it would have been better if the killer had been identified at the beginning of the finale, then chased and caught at the very end or escaped in some way that implicated a partner of sorts that we didn't expect.

Either way, the only reason a lot of people continued watching was to find the identity of the killer, since the rest of the season sucked so hard outside of roughly 4 episodes. I don't understand how they throw that curveball at the very end when they didn't do shit for about 8 episodes in the middle. People should rightfully be pissed off.

I actually have far more of a problem with the people behind the show's resolution than the actual resolution itself. They used info that was present at the very beginning of the investigation as the final nail? They pull up to a gas station and the guy immediately says "yeah, I know the sedan, the guy, and the girl screaming." Ahmed's wife not recognizing the guy who beat her husband and who was also the father of the famous dead daughter who her husband taught? And finally, the laughably obvious "Linden's getting on the plane, here she goes, oh shit it's a phone call with evidence that will make her stay"?

How dumb do they think their viewers are?

You make some great points...


But I think this show was always going to be doomed with the "damned if we do, damned if we don't" mentality....

Had they closed out all of the stories and nailed the killer, people would have their resolution, but then would have focused on the meandering plot and slow pace and all of the red herrings when it should have been "simple" to get from the murder to the abduction of the killer (revisionist history when you know whodunit).

I personally can't envision a finale that would have fulfilled the viewers' desire for resolution and brought those same viewers back for Season 2. If this story was concluded definitively in the S1 finale, people would be hesitant to come back for Season 2 knowing they'd be getting more of the same meandering and misdirection until the ultimate "ah-ha" in the finale that seemed like it should have been obvious from the beginning.

I think the way they did it was the only way to hook the maximum amount of viewers for the second season....there they could iron out rough spots in casting and storytelling and then be more confident in and have a better idea of what/who to expect to return for a 3rd season, if they made it that far.


But they definitely could have done a better job making the story flow into a second season....making EVERYTHING happen in the last 2 minutes was lazy, and just put off all the real storytelling until next season.

They had WAYYY too much filler in the finale.....Stan (best actor on the show) pulling up to the house, walking to the backyard, looking at the swings and then changing scenes was just idiotic.....the Belko/Aunt Terry scene was completely unnecessary....and there was another scene that just made me cringe that they threw that in there but I can't remember now.

Had they cut out some fluff and resolved this arc more in one season, or ended it after one season, way more people would be satisfied....but trying to stretch out a single murder arc over 2 seasons is going to bite them in the ass.

They started with around 2.7million viewers, got down to about 1.7million a few weeks ago and finished at 2.3million for the finale....the way they ended things, I'd be surprised if they hit 1million for next season's premiere.




And when are they planning on bringing this back?....I know Breaking Bad starts next month...13 episodes should end it around early October....and I'm assuming The Walking Dead will be after that....and rumors are that Mad Men will be back in January (at the earliest)....do they really wanna bring this back next March?

Is there any way they bring this back sooner to try to minimize the loss of viewers after the finale was so poorly rated?
 
I don't know if people still have this debate but Tony is definitely dead at the end of The Sopranos. Breaking down the scene, the season, and David Chase's comments proves that to be the case with almost complete certainty. If you have some free time and are interested still this breakdown of the scene and the entire final season is impeccably done.

LOL

Yea I actually read through that breakdown last Summer....

I agree it's almost a certainty how things ended....but leaving things ambiguous is just not right....even if they wanted to play up the whole "I think it's just lights out, everything cuts to black" stuff when they were talking about getting whacked....Chase could have still come out and say "yes that is what happened"....the pretentiousness of playing up the ambiguity just aggravates the shit out of me.
 
Personally, I didn't want to see Tony's brains splattered all over the table in front of his family. I thought it was extremely well done and poignant. Sure Chase is abrasive but he clearly hinted that he was dead. Having to explicitly say what something is seems to go against an artistic nature.

As far as your contention that this is the best way to bring back the maximum amount of viewers for season 2 of The Killing, I strongly disagree. They antagonized their fanbase and most people on here are probably reflective of the majority of the audience who say they will not tune into season 2.

It really wasn't a damned if you do, damned if you don't proposition. They gave us nothing solid the entire season. They did the same thing in the finale they'd been doing all year. They didn't "do" anything.
 
It was written somewhat incoherently, as if there was overall plan that ran from beginning to end.


There are plenty of ways they could have ended it and left people intrigued for next season: solve the murder and have it uncover a bigger conspiracy or solve it and show the beginning of the next killing, just to name a couple.
 
Interesting article about the potential long term damage to AMC:
Hiding Behind the Brand: How The Killing Threatens the Future of AMC


What I’m interested in is the way that this response reflects on larger questions of brand identity that are unquestionably caught up in this response to The Killing. This weekend, I read a piece on AMC’s growing dominance at the Emmy Awards at The Hollywood Reporter in which Sud was quoted quite extensively as she waxed poetic on the freedom of the AMC model. Her first quote was perhaps the one that stuck out most, as she notes that the AMC approach is perhaps best defined by the following: “Always assume that your audience is smarter than you are.”


Given how often I felt The Killing insulted my intelligence as a viewer, this quote struck me as odd. And then I read the rest of her quotes in the article, and discovered the same issue: when she was only spouting a series of platitudes regarding the genius of the AMC brand that we hear from other writers (including a Breaking Bad writer in the same piece), I could take none of them at face value given the fact that The Killing has done little to earn them. In a climate in which The Killing has squandered nearly all of its critical goodwill, Sud’s comments were charmlessly naive, and this was before she made many similar comments in defense of the season finale.
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A Miring Mouthpiece

The problem with this strategy is that Veena Sud has proven an incredible liability in the wake of the show’s divisive season finale. It is one thing for a press release to sell the show as an unqualified success, as we expect executives to talk about how they “elevate the crime drama with this series” or how the show is “incredibly powerful television.” However, Sud’s post-finale interviews have been peppered with this kind of executive doublespeak, relying on broad statements of purpose instead of any actual evidence of the show’s success: take, for example, her repetition of “this is the anti-cop cop show” in several interviews, including twice in her interview with Alan Sepinwall. That interview, which is somewhat contentious given that Sepinwall has been one of the show’s most vocal critics, also raises some questions regarding Sud’s control over the series’ narrative:
[Sepinwall:] One of the ways in which the story progressed was that it seemed like Holder and Linden would settle in on one person at a time. This person would seem like the obvious suspect, the end of an episode would point at them as clearly the one who did it, and we’d come back at the start of the next episode, learn that it was a misunderstanding, and move on to the next one. In your research of these kinds of investigations, did you find that the cases tended to unfold in that way, or was it something that simply dramatically expedient?
[Sud:] We based a lot of the red herrings on what the Danes did. They did an excellent job, and we did that until they locked in on Bennet Ahmed, and he became a suspect for multiple episodes, and the suspicion deepened. I does feel like, initially, there’s a bit of juggling between the “he did it,” “she did it,” “he said,” “she said,” the natural course of an investigation, and then landing on someone who the cops think potentially did it. And then we spent a while on that, until the twist that happened.
Despite being positioned as an auteur figure, this answer (among many in the interview with Sepinwall, and in many other interviews) reveals a pretty disappointingly elementary understanding of her own show. It reads like a summary more than an explanation: Sepinwall didn’t ask what their process was, he asked why they chose it, and Sud seemed entirely unwilling (or unable) to answer those types of questions. For every question that Sepinwall asks which is clearly looking for some kind of explanation for a divisive creative decision (like the choice to focus so much attention on the political campaign, or the repetitiveness of the storylines for the grieving family), Sud responds with why she was personally invested in it, with no discussion of narrative form, storytelling, or other such trivial things.


The interview reads as though Sud is the television showrunner equivalent of the Manchurian candidate, someone who has been programmed to respond in a certain fashion but who lacks the actual experience to understand the context of his or her statements. While auteur figures are often somewhat insular in their storytelling, following particular whims, they also have a clear sense of their personal vision that feels intricately linked to television as a medium (or storytelling as an art form, at the very least). It also helps, of course, when the show they’re defending is widely acclaimed, as opposed to a show which has been highly criticized as the season has worn on: in fact, that Sud’s interviews appeared in the midst of the enormous backlash against the season finale only made her seem more oblivious to the disconnect between her vision and the way it was received.


Of course, Sud is entitled to her opinion, and I do not want to suggest that it is fair to take her answers in interviews as a sign of her intelligence or her abilities. However, the larger problem is that all of her comments are being framed in terms of the AMC brand. In the Hollywood Reporter Emmy piece, Sud suggests that “AMC allows us to surprise ourselves and the audience,” one of many comments that creates a clear (and logical) link between her show and the network’s philosophy. In Sepinwall’s interview, she even reveals her attempts to find clear signifiers of that brand, suggesting that “it’s very much an AMC tradition, to take this rapid, unexpected detour from what we think might be a linear story, and find ourselves…lost and trying to make sense.” It’s one thing for Sud to be unwilling to offer explanations for certain storytelling decisions: that is simply a reflection on her own approach to serving as showrunner. It is quite another, however, for her to be explaining storytelling decisions based on her personal effort to boil the AMC brand down to episodic tropes and broad claims of difference unsubstantiated by the text itself.
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The woman sounds like a complete idiot. It's like she made a paint by numbers show based on what other people had done with no clear strategy of what she seeks to accomplish.
 
For the record, I think Rubicon was a much better show than The Killing. That said, Rubicon had terrible pacing problems and was flat out boring for the bulk of the series, it never could figure out to do with Kathleen Rumour (who I think I actually compared to the Richmond campaign earlier in this thread), it had a silly reveal with the neighbor who turned out to be an undercover agent, and the final episode was terrible. I am not disappointed that it won't be returning.
 
I agree with Slim that they did this to maximize the viewers for next year. They knew if they wrapped it up, they would lose the viewers that were already going to bail due to how poorly the show was run. But if they stretch it out, they might keep those viewers and add a few more that will know they can find out who killed Rosie in the first couple of episodes. Also, I think they will kill off someone from Season 1 (maybe the Mayor that loses, the exhusband, her son) so that we already have a backstory on the guy, and then they spend the rest of the season catching the killer.
 
Well, I think they did more of a take on how different the show's finales were, yet both roundly criticized, i.e. that the Killing said "eff you viewers, you get nothing, no conclusion" while Rubicon sped itself up and wrapped up everything in a way too easy manner in order to appease the fans in case it wasn't renewed.

I thought Rubicon was a far, far better show. Yes, it was slow and had pacing problems (which, if paced correctly, the finale would have been more even as well), but it was a whole hell of a lot smarter of a show and was produced about a million times better. The story was good, but they just didn't approach it correctly, in terms of pace. The characters were also a lot better, imo.

I miss will and rubi. :tear:
 
ZOMG, Veena Sud must shut up.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/killing-showrunner-responds-finale-backlash-204728

Sample quote:

"I'm flattered," says Sud, "and I guess surprised a little bit. But certainly it's a good feeling to know people are watching and talking about the show. I mean, the last time I felt this personally myself, and saw this type of reaction, was when The Sopranos ended its run [with a shockingly abrupt, ambiguous, mostly despised 2007 finale]. If the show can be in that company, it's a deep compliment."
 
Wow. Those are some of the most delusional quotes I've ever read. Somebody really needs to explain to her what is going on.

1. People didn't like your show but they stuck with it expecting to get a conclusion after 13 eps.

2. They didn't which just pisses them off more. They're not going to come back and watch your show.

3. You're hurting your career every time you open your mouth.
 
I think this tweet describes her interviews best:

weinmanj
I love Veena Sud. She's a parody of Genius Creator interviews, unaware nobody considers her a genius.

She keeps comparing her terribly mediocre show to great shows and she says she doesn't pay attention to the internet and two seconds later says the show is a great success because some people on a random message board said they'd watch the second season because of the controversy.

I also love this quote: "They're complaining that there are too many red herrings?" Sud says. "Well, there's two ways to look at it. Either it's a left brain journey where you're just connecting the dots of who the suspects are or it's more of a holistic journey where a young girl is murdered these are the potential suspects and this is why."

What a crock. There was nothing holistic about the show and the ultimate cliffhanger was out of left field and lame as shit.
 
I swear she thinks she has a great show because it was on Sunday night at 10 pm on AMC.
 
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