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Transgender Athletes

you don't have to engage with biff

I think they're the first to post LibsofTikTok on here
 
We’ve come a long way since Ace Ventura: Pet Detective in a fairly short period of time


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Trans people…because God makes mistakes? Is it free will or predetermined destiny and how is transgender people involved?

A lot of hormones are on a spectrum (high to low, low to high), so why not those that produce transgender people? The idea that it is just choice, not that is anything wrong with that, is just short sided confusion and hatred to anything “different”.
 
its clearly not choice but all people and especially young people can be molded by their environment and what they're exposed to, and we're sorta in uncharted territory as to the effects of the internet, so no one truly knows what the heck we're doing
 
BeachBumDeac said:
Biff can you define a "genetic male"
Click to expand...

It's easy to define the two sexes, "male" and "female".

www.city-journal.org

Understanding the Sex Binary

Current debates over the fundamental nature of biological sex are not merely esoteric academic musings. They have direct implications for policy related to sex-based legal protections and medicine. It truly matters whether sex categories in humans are empirically real, immutable, and binary, or...
www.city-journal.org www.city-journal.org

"...When biologists claim that “sex is binary,” they mean something straightforward: there are only two sexes. This statement is true because an individual’s sex is defined by the type of gamete (sperm or ova) their primary reproductive organs (i.e., gonads) are organized, through development, to produce. Males have primary reproductive organs organized around the production of sperm; females, ova. Because there is no third gamete type, there are only two sexes that a person can be. Sex is therefore binary..."

Given that Lia Thomas has male gonads (two testicles), Thomas is clearly a male and thus has significant, natural advantages in size, strength and speed over the women he competes against. I don't care what is Thomas' "gender identity"--he is a male.
 
The shortest man ever 23.5 inches. The tallest woman is 7’7”.

Does he still have the advantage?
 
dartsndeacs said:
its clearly not choice but all people and especially young people can be molded by their environment and what they're exposed to, and we're sorta in uncharted territory as to the effects of the internet, so no one truly knows what the heck we're doing
Click to expand...


Detransition rates are still extremely low (< 2%) in most well regarded studies, though admittedly more long term studies would always be better! So I don't think this is a real problem. The person who invented rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria is a fucking quack who has already tried to backtrack on it.

The uncharted territory we're really in, and what you more or less alluded to with your Ace Ventura post, is that for the first time in a long time (at least in western culture) there are actually positive trans role models allowed to live their lives publicly and as a result we are seeing more acceptance overall (because surprise surprise, trans people are just regular fucking people trying to live authentically in accordance with their gender). 30 years ago a kid questioning whether it was worth it to explore their dysphoria* or bottle it up and do their best to fit in didn't have Hunter Schafer, Hari Nef, Laverne Cox, or Ava Kris Tyson to look up to. If they wanted to be a sports geek they didn't have Christina Kharl or Grace Robertson. They didn't have politicians like Zooey Zephyr proving you can make a go of it even in red states. Those role models can make a huge difference in showing positive outcomes that aren't "villain in an Ace Ventura movie" or "sex worker".

*The internet IS a great resource for helping people understand what gender dysphoria feels like, the many ways it can manifest, and what gender affirming hormone therapy can do among other things, which can literally save lives if it happens to reach someone who is struggling with those particular problems.

What you will likely NOT find any real evidence of on the internet (on any widespread scale) is anyone influencing others to be trans or people doing it to fit in (hahaha). There is specifically a major rule in trans communities that you should never tell someone questioning their gender if you think they are trans or not.
 
IamThunderbolt said:
I will be honest, I really don't give a shit about sports when it comes to this issue. I think we place too much societal emphasis on sports, especially when it comes to marginalized populations. I'm concerned about the safety and inclusion of trans folks on a larger societal scale and if sports must be sacrificed for that end, I'm cool with it.

But if we must talk about sports.

A better discussion is about the how and parameters of inclusion of trans women in sports. Forget talk of "genetic males," "used to be a male," "chicks with dicks" etc. The question at hand is concerning competitive advantage*, testosterone level and whether a person has undergone male puberty (which opens a much more important and larger conversation about access to gender affirming care, but we'll put that aside for a moment).

It may be that Lia Thomas had a competitive advantage due to testosterone levels through the course of her life. But the conclusion shouldn't be "ban trans women from competitive sports" and villainizing her (she competed fairly by the rules as written). It also shouldn't be dredging up Juwanna Man as an fear-mongering argument against trans women participation. There is a discussion to be had as to how long a person who has undergone male/female puberty should be on HRT before competing. There isn't a consensus among studies, but most identify that period as between 1-4 years where all competitive advantage from increased testosterone has been mitigated. Current NCAA guidelines suggest 1 year. As we have more trans women competing, it may show that that time period should be longer. Adjusting that requirement is about competitive advantage, not about the identity of trans women.

However, much of the rhetoric is not about finding a solution to competitive advantage, but that trans women are "dishonest," "ego-driven," "men pretending to be women," etc. And that rhetoric is extremely harmful to the trans community.

*But the question at hand, and what's driving the conversation, ISN'T competitive advantage. That is the one foothold that people can grab to voice their opposition to trans women being women and opening up medical rights and access. All of it is a bid against the normalization of trans folks - and mostly about finding a scapegoat that many don't consciously know or can't quite empathize with to maintain power.
Click to expand...
best post of the thread

Sent from my SM-S711U using Tapatalk
 
As the old saying goes…Democrats will feed 100 hungry people with the idea that one will really need it and Republicans will withhold for from the same 100 with the idea that one doesn’t need it.
 
Funny how they are better with the economy

But it’s metaphor
 
Deacfan2009 said:
Detransition rates are still extremely low (< 2%) in most well regarded studies, though admittedly more long term studies would always be better! So I don't think this is a real problem. The person who invented rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria is a fucking quack who has already tried to backtrack on it.

The uncharted territory we're really in, and what you more or less alluded to with your Ace Ventura post, is that for the first time in a long time (at least in western culture) there are actually positive trans role models allowed to live their lives publicly and as a result we are seeing more acceptance overall (because surprise surprise, trans people are just regular fucking people trying to live authentically in accordance with their gender). 30 years ago a kid questioning whether it was worth it to explore their dysphoria* or bottle it up and do their best to fit in didn't have Hunter Schafer, Hari Nef, Laverne Cox, or Ava Kris Tyson to look up to. If they wanted to be a sports geek they didn't have Christina Kharl or Grace Robertson. They didn't have politicians like Zooey Zephyr proving you can make a go of it even in red states. Those role models can make a huge difference in showing positive outcomes that aren't "villain in an Ace Ventura movie" or "sex worker".

*The internet IS a great resource for helping people understand what gender dysphoria feels like, the many ways it can manifest, and what gender affirming hormone therapy can do among other things, which can literally save lives if it happens to reach someone who is struggling with those particular problems.

What you will likely NOT find any real evidence of on the internet (on any widespread scale) is anyone influencing others to be trans or people doing it to fit in (hahaha). There is specifically a major rule in trans communities that you should never tell someone questioning their gender if you think they are trans or not.
Click to expand...
Yes, I don't think anyone is suggesting they're doing it to fit in, or anyone is influencing others to be trans, or doing it to win a swim meet. But with more exposure and with impressionable kids (and even impressionable adults) you'll have more experimentation.
 
I would suggest that with all the airbrushing/photoshopping/beauty standards that kids are exposed to these days, it makes it a lot harder in this day and age for those that don't fit that mold to handle it, and they're more likely to not want to compete with all these straight airbrushed instagram models.
 
dartsndeacs said:
Yes, I don't think anyone is suggesting they're doing it to fit in, or anyone is influencing others to be trans, or doing it to win a swim meet. But with more exposure and with impressionable kids (and even impressionable adults) you'll have more experimentation.
Click to expand...

Sure. I don't think that's a bad thing either. A lot of gender is worth fucking around with and challenging IMO. Most people experimenting or exploring their gender will walk away more confident in themselves if they aren't actually trans (maybe they will 100% realize they are their assigned gender, maybe they will realize they tilt more non-binary but are still comfortable with their original pronouns etc.). Everything is on a spectrum!

For the same reason, I'm not freaking out about 30% of Gen Z women identifying as bisexual. That just tells me that people are a lot more open to experimentation and figuring out what they really want.
 
Deacfan2009 said:
Sure. I don't think that's a bad thing either. A lot of gender is worth fucking around with and challenging IMO. Most people experimenting or exploring their gender will walk away more confident in themselves if they aren't actually trans (maybe they will 100% realize they are their assigned gender, maybe they will realize they tilt more non-binary but are still comfortable with their original pronouns etc.). Everything is on a spectrum!

For the same reason, I'm not freaking out about 30% of Gen Z women identifying as bisexual. That just tells me that people are a lot more open to experimentation and figuring out what they really want.
Click to expand...
I agree with this, I'd need some more convincing on the appropriateness of messing with puberty medically. And ultimately we're gonna need more than 70% of women to ultimately decide to spit out a couple kids, otherwise we're going extinct.
 
dartsndeacs said:
I agree with this, I'd need some more convincing on the appropriateness of messing with puberty medically. And ultimately we're gonna need more than 70% of women to ultimately decide to spit out a couple kids, otherwise we're going extinct.
Click to expand...
Well that's more about reproductive freedom, pro-family policies (paid parental leave, public pre-K, quality public education, affordable colleges) and creating a world people want to raise kids in.

But yeah, maintaining a gender binary is mostly about keeping women barefoot and pregnant.
 
CaptRenault said:
It's easy to define the two sexes, "male" and "female".

www.city-journal.org

Understanding the Sex Binary

Current debates over the fundamental nature of biological sex are not merely esoteric academic musings. They have direct implications for policy related to sex-based legal protections and medicine. It truly matters whether sex categories in humans are empirically real, immutable, and binary, or...
www.city-journal.org www.city-journal.org

"...When biologists claim that “sex is binary,” they mean something straightforward: there are only two sexes. This statement is true because an individual’s sex is defined by the type of gamete (sperm or ova) their primary reproductive organs (i.e., gonads) are organized, through development, to produce. Males have primary reproductive organs organized around the production of sperm; females, ova. Because there is no third gamete type, there are only two sexes that a person can be. Sex is therefore binary..."

Given that Lia Thomas has male gonads (two testicles), Thomas is clearly a male and thus has significant, natural advantages in size, strength and speed over the women he competes against. I don't care what is Thomas' "gender identity"--he is a male.
Click to expand...
What about infertile people that produce no gametes? Or what about post menopausal women? What locker room should they use?!?!
 
deacdiggler said:
there are only 3 colors. red, blue, and yellow. i will post inane wikipedia articles and incomprehensible drivel from my drudge subscription to argue with anyone on this point
Click to expand...
What kind of gonads does red have?
 
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